Question for those familiar with O’Grady pipes. Do his newer pipes have a weaker back D, as the older ones tend to? If so, what’s the best way to correct this? Not sure if it’s a reed or chanter issue. One of my piping teacher’s other students has an O’Grady set and they seem like a decent set for the money.
Corin,
I also have an O’Grady chanter. I recieved the set through Song of the Sea two years ago. I would agree that on my chanter the back D was weak. It was very sensitive to pressure (the note would go very sharp if played to hard) and was not loud at all. I didn’t realize this until I played a few chanters by different makers. HOWEVER, the problem was not the chanter but the reed. Three weeks ago, I went to visit a friend who is a very good reed maker. He tried different reeds that he had already made and was able to find a reed that worked. He then fine tuned it, cutting the reed shorter and adding a rush in the reed. The result was incredible. The chanter is louder (without diminishing tone), more responsive, and the back D is now loud and strong. It is a totally different instrument. While he was fine tuning my chanter, I played a while on his own (made by a very good maker and reeded by himself). It sounded and responded wonderfully. However, by the time I left his home I felt personally that my chanter sounded just as good if not better.
It is my opinion that Neil O’Grady is a fine meticulous pipe maker (along with being a very curtious and genuine man). However, while he makes decent reeds, he is not a great reed maker. I think he makes wonderful chanters and would recommend him to anyone, but if you are having problems with a weak back D I would possibly see about getting it re-reeded. I know not everyone has the luxury of being two hours away from a skilled reed maker, but there are a lot of very good reed makers out there.
hope this helps
Joseph
It might just be worth it then for me to buy a set and just have the chanter rereeded. I could still have an affordable set that would probably keep me happy for a while. There just so happens to be an excellent reedmaker in the town where I work. He made a fantastic reed for a sessionmate’s Rowsome chanter. I’m borrowing my friend and teacher’s old practice set now, but he’ll need it back at some point for another student that he’d actually charge. So, I can’t complain. Song of the Sea is about a 3 hour drive for me, so that would work. By the way, does the reedmaker you spoke of ever venture to these parts?
Corin,
I don’t think he gets to the east coast that much. He lives in the LA area, and yes he is in fact the renound Mr. O’Donovan “worker of miracles”. He actually does most of the reeding for Michael Hubbert’s pipes. Michael Hubbert’s webite can be found at http://homepage.mac.com/photomorphose/hubbert.html
I think O’Donovan is an amazing reed maker and an even better guy. In fact, I am thinking of naming my first born after him (if I ever do get married and actually have a son…gotta find a woman first)…ha ha.
Larry, I didn’t mention his name out of courtesy. While the man should get all the credit and accolades, I don’t want him all of the sudden getting swamped with calls from around the country from people seeing if he can reed there pipes. The poor guy is busy enough.
Thank you for the kind word, I hope to get down for a meeting soon too. Just very busy one Sundays. I hope you are well also and that the pipes are going good.
Joseph
I have an O’Grady halfset that I got this summer (from Song of the Sea). I am very happy with the set, although I have had a similar experience to those mentioned. The back D was also weak and a little unstable initially but improved as the reed was played-in. I also find that adding a “rush” to the staple bore improved the pitch and stability of the second octave greatly, improved the back D and made the pipe more user-friendly overall - greater note stability, more responsiveness.
Actually, I have four of Neil’s reeds and they are very consistent. I have not had to resort to shortening the reed to overcome back D instabilities. Actaully, Neil’s reeds play remarkably well (post staple tweaking) in the dessicating enviroment of Salt Lake City. I would think that it is pretty arid in Bakersfield as well, Joseph? It is worth noting that when I went from the 8% humidity of Salt Lake to the 70% humidity of the northern California coast this last summer my reeds (not surprisingly) were unplayable for two days! When they finally became playable low and behold the back D would sink like crazy (suggesting that the lips are too thin). Back to Salt Lake and good as gold. I think that Neil’s makes his reeds quite thin, especially at the lips, necessitating a little trimming to adjust to a particular humidity and/or slight variation from reed to reed. I’m not sure why Neil makes them this way. I would think that it is not very dry in Newfoundland, but maybe Neil has wood heat
Overall I recomend Neil’s pipes. Any pipes will require the user to do some fine tuning and tweaking. I don’t think that what I or Joseph have had to do is unreasonable or out of the ordinary; it’s all part of the learning curve. I should add that the drones were very easy to set up, even for a novice such as myself. They are well balanced, very stable and blend nicely with the chanter. I have had several people remark about how nice they sound (but maybe it’s because they stand in stark contrast with the quality of my chanter playing
Good luck! John.
P.S. Corin, If you don’t mind me asking, where in Maine do you live? My wife is from Orono and we occassionally get back to visit. It would be fun to get together and do some piping next time I’m in your neck of the woods.
I live in Portland. I always love to get together with folks for some tunes. We have a great session here as well if you get the chance. Of course we have 2 pipers there already! I’m not much on the pipes myself actually. I don’t have a set of my own, which is why I was curious about the O’Grady. The prices through Song of the Sea are closer to my price range than others at this point. Being able to go pick them up is a plus too. Just started on a friend’s spare set, but I play fiddle, flute and whistle well. If I got the O’Grady, I’d probably have this guy in York re-reed it, but there’s talk of him getting out of reedmaking, which would be a shame. He makes fantastic reeds. Also makes nice bellows too.
I love the sound of pipes and fiddle together. Too bad there’s no way to play both at the same time!
John,
The climate here in Bakersfield is indeed very arid. The humidty can be very low during the summer ussually 15-20% even sometimes 10%. However, we have wet winters and the humidty goes up the 50’s and 60’s. So from October to April its comfortably humid, 40’s to 60’s. But from May to September the humidty drops and it becomes very dry. This of coarse can reek havoc on your pipes. There is another piper here in town (there’s only two of us as far as I know), we were talking one day about the humidity problem and he stated that his pipes were playing great (mid-March) but that he feared and dreaded the summer coming.
John, I aggree with what you stated about your observations of Neil’s reeds. Neil’s reeds do function well when it dry. My own reeds stayed in tune pretty well, although my back D still remained weak whether dry or humid. I also agree the reason for this is that Neil does makes his reeds quite thin at the lips. I don’t know the reason for this either.
Anyway, it has been cool to be able to discuss this with all of you.
all the best
Joseph
I too, suffer from a sinking back-d on my O’Grady chanter, although it isn’t a persistent problem. I had always related the problem to too much pressure on the bag. What is the process of adding a rush to the staple bore? What material do you use? How is this done? I’d like to try it out.
Perhaps Kevin has had personal experience with Niel’s pipes and could provide us with a more mature, point-by-point listing of what he found lacking? I was under the impression that wholesale slagging of pipers and makers was generally frowned upon here without more explination than a couple of cutesy emoticons. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but from Kevin’s past posts, I expected something more than finger painting.
Back to Jamie Kerr’s question,
I cut a small square from a playing card, approx. the inner circumfrence of the staple and ~0.5 cm high, roll it up and shove it up the staple. Voila, an enema for your reed! I use an old bike spoke to insert the rool of card and to move it around (a bamboo Bar-B-Q skewer works if you don’t have piles of old spokes laying around like I do). It is necessary to experiment with the length and position of the rush in the staple. It is quite remarkable how sensitive the upper octave is to the size/position of the rush in the staple. I eventually placed it fairly high (maybe a centimeter). This flattened the upper hand of the second octave, which was sharp overall anyways.
It is much easier to hit and hold the high notes after rushing, particularly high D. I can now get to high D by leading from F’ through A’ straight to D’’ (a technique favored by Seamus Ennis) rather than running through a bunch of grace notes to get there.
As far as the sinking back D, I’m not entirely sure how the rush affected it since I also trimmed a tiny amount off of the lips to stablize the back D at the same time.
One thing that made the process irksome (until I realized the problem)was that I was not always getting the reed back it’s original postion in the seat, and I was getting leaks around the seat occasionally. So, eventhough you have to remove and replace the reed many times in this process take the time to make sure it is square in the chanter and there are no leaks. Otherwise a potentially good position of the rush might be obscured by noises caused by leaks, etc..
Thanks for the constructive reply. Last night, I played with the bridle of my reed a bit. I nudged it up a very tiny bit. After that, my back ‘d’ was very solid and loud, and I couldn’t make it sink.
As far as where this thread started to go, people buy different pipes from different makers for different reasons. In my case, it was a matter of price and geography. Neil’s pipes were within the range I was able to afford. That being said, I am very happy with my set, with the disclaimer that I have never tried another set. I find the set easy to play, and it plays all the time. If the only issue is a periodic sinking back ‘d’, then I think that it is not too bad! I hate to see a lot of these threads descend into general, negative comments due to snobbery, and other reasons.
hey kev , not to really join in the slagg here , but I have to say that personally that , I think that I would be better off if I did not slagg pipemakers If I never made a set myself . yerself ,lol . .
I had probs with weak back dees on most of the " thanters" I have owned , though I think there is a trade off as you go into the wider bores , that being , more bore , more pressure , If you want to play a wide bore with less pressure , then the first note to go is the back d . Add rushes where needed to bring the set into tune . Rousome did this .Both in the chanter , and the reggulators . Mabey neil is savvy to this , and his intentions are good in seeking a balance in the chanter . In moose country . Maine . Where they have braids in their hair .
tok .