I recently turned vegan and I am curious if some vegans are on chiff too.
I’d like to get in touch and discuss what moved you to veganism and also what veganism means to you.
I seem to have a mind of my own, regarding to other vegans … but I find it a very interesting topic to talk about…think in the direction of "when you turned vegan, what did you think you were supposed to do as vegan*.
Berti
Redwolf and I are Vegetarians, but not Vegans. I’m irritating enough as a Vegetarian… plus I don’t have the discipline.
I am conversant in veganism, since one of my daughters has been vegan (with a few ethical exceptions) for years. Husband is omnivorous, other 3 kids are veg, but eat eggs/cheese.
I am predominantly herbivorous, except in that I occasionally eat fish, but I never eat cheese/ice cream/heavily milky things, because they’ll give me a migraine.
The thing is, I (and the vegan daughter) have probably slid from a more stringent ethical basis at the outset, to a more philosophical view which acknowledges the impossibility of living in a way that doesn’t adversely affect other lives. I have never been negative or judgmental toward meat-eating, because humans are clearly biologically capable of omnivorousness. I could hardly consider it evil, while feeding my cats rabbit and venison.
I’m less interested in the ethics of animal eating, and more interested in the overall impact of industrial agriculture on environmental and human health.
Anyway, when all kids are home we often opt for a vegan approach to meal-planning, or cake making, or whatever the fun of the moment is, because then everyone will eat it.
I hope this is an interesting thread. I’d like to hear why folks change to becoming a vegetarian or vegan. It’s the “change” aspect that interests me, especially when not done as teenagers to upset parents or because they were dating someone who was, as seems to have been the case with most of my personal friends.
Well Mute, the vegan daughter (now 23) became vegan at roughly 11, due to an intense desire to not harm another living thing. She also experienced a very difficult phase of obsessive-compulsive disorder at the time (lasted a couple years, and she improved beautifully,) but the veganism started sort of intricately entwined with a lot of other strange behaviors.
As a result of dealing with what was a very difficult and traumatic condition (me) and her learning how to cope with and recover from it, we both ended up with a much less strident view of the ethics of eating than many “religiously” veg folk.
As I mentioned, she’s still primarily vegan (primarily, because she has “freeganism” tendencies which make her less concerned about what she eats, and more thoughtful about the specifics of the situation.)
And I’m still primarily vegetarian, because I think that, all in all, it’s healthiest for me and the planet. But this is a personal thing, and I dislike the thing of stridently trying to impose one’s personal conclusions on anyone else as much as omnivores dislike it.
As IB said, I’m a vegetarian (ovo-lacto), and have been for 21 years. For me, it all started when I gave up meat for Lent one year. Part of my discipline was to learn as much as I could about vegetarianism, and the reasons people do it. One of the books I read during that time was John Robbin’s “Diet for a New America.” When Easter rolled around, I decided that I wanted to stick with the vegetarian thing for a while.
11 years later, I became executive director of the organization Robbins founded: Earthsave International. I only served for a year, as it was just too much with a child on the autism spectrum to care for…but it definitely had the feeling of coming full-circle!
Been quite a while now! Tony became a vegetarian about a year after me.
I’ve never been vegan, but we went through quite a long period when we ate primarily vegan foods at home…even now, I’d say a fair percentage of what we eat for dinner in any given week is vegan. When I cook for other vegetarians, I almost always prepare vegan food…it’s just easier than trying to sort out who does and doesn’t eat this, that, or the other thing!
Tony and I were just discussing this the other day, and one of the best things that happened to us, I think, is I became a better cook. For one thing, as I explored vegetarian cooking, I was exposed to cuisines that I’d never known before, growing up in white-bread, meat-and-potatoes Spokane. I also discovered ingredients that I’d never seen before, and that would still be part of our diet if we were to suddenly stop being vegetarian today: tempeh, for example.
One bit of advice I give all new vegetarians is “learn to cook as if the concept of eating meat had never been invented.” A lot of people who switch to a vegetarian (or vegan) diet tend to try to eat as they always have, using meat analogs to substitute for what they’re “missing.” I don’t have a problem with meat analogs, and use them quite often anymore (well, some of them, anyway), but I’m glad they weren’t widely available when I started, as I think I’m a better, more creative, cook for it.
Redwolf
We should all eat as many cows as we can to prevent their combined gasses from contributing to global warming, says I. 
“I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals, I’m a vegetarian because I hate vegetables!”
Imo Phillips
Seriously though…
If you want to get motivated to cut way back on animal protien read “The China Study”.
Around here we try to eat less than about 10% meat in our diet. We drink no cow milk but do use lots of goat milk and goat cheese.
Doc
Definitely. Also why I’m a cannibal.
emmline: interesting that your daughter is vegan with a few ethical exceptions.
which ones? I sure am one for making up one’s own mind when turning vegan instead of slavishly following what all other vegans do and some don’t even know WHY they do it.
for example,I do spin and wear wool still and will keep doing so.
why? because I find shearing sheep is not exploiting the animals, they NEED to be shorn, and I buy from sources I know treat their animals gently.
therefore, lots of vegans will stumble across me and tell me I am not vegan.
but I am…I don’t use animal meat, nor produce from exploiting animals like leather/ honey.
sure, eggs are not an product of exploiting animals either but I have chosen not to use them.
I became vegan overnight, I have been vegetarian on and off for long periods in my life with a few years break and at that time already wanted to become vegan but found it too much of a hassle.
now it “naturally happened”, so I have not been thinking about it at all…I just feel great and reason enough to keep going.
that it lessens your carbon footprint (aka, environmental impact) plus that it’s better for your health wise, are just other plus points.
and if you are trying to cut back on meat, or are vegetarian already: GOOD FOR YOU!
any change in the right direction is a good one.
it’s great to see that there is coming more awareness in the world anyways…slowly but surely.
I don’t know if I should be included in the category or not, as I am a part-time vegetarian. I enjoy a Burger King Whopper once in awhile, but mostly I feast on vegetables, grains and fruits. Oh yes, we did have a little turkey sausage for dinner.
I trust you are eating mostly cattle eaters. This would have a double effect on reducing the emissions that contribute to global warming because
Just to add…
A huge percentage of arable land, in this country at least, is devoted to raising corn and soy specifically for fattening feed-lotted beef. That’s a hugely inefficient use of a limited resource.
If you’re going to eat beef, folks, at least go for grass-fed!
Redwolf
It apparently also has a much kinder affect on your body. In fact, might actually be construed as good for you in moderation!
That’s an interesting question.
Part of the answer is that you almost always notice, eventually, how strict adherence to rules–even your own rules–usually is impossible without some hypocrisy or other turning up. In other words, nothing can be done perfectly, so you might as well resolve to make improvements in the direction you want to go, while recognizing that perfection is not only impossible, but it can be tedious and irritating to others. I’m sure I can’t do perfectly, but that’s not a reason not to do better. And sometimes there are more important considerations…like people’s feelings.
Even if you’re concerned about animal welfare, and that’s your primary motivation–well, it’s like religion or politics in a way–there are just so many interpretations one might make as to what is “best.”
So when it comes to choices like leather, honey, eggs…each person really needs to decide for him/herself.
You can be sure that if someone criticizes you for a choice you’ve made, because she’s more “pure,” that you’d uncover all sorts of things if you dug around–or, that person is just no-fun and uptight! 
As for specific choices my daughter Rachel makes–she avoids eggs, but doesn’t mind using eggs from the chickens she cared for herself, because she knows they have decent lives. Another example: At an Indian restaurant recently, the proprietor–who knew it was her birthday–brought out a cake for her at the end of our meal. And we all shared it, including Rachel, even though it was clearly not vegan. This was a case of accepting and being grateful for a kindness outweighing your “rules.”
She will wear leather, although she doesn’t buy leather things. This is because she lives very frugally, and tries to minimize her environmental footprint, but if I give her a pair of shoes that I don’t wear, and they’re leather, she wears them until they fall apart.
There are so many things in people’s lives, and so many complications, and so many things to be passionate about, that we’ll never all latch onto the same causes, and the same motivations. I guess we can just hope to influence trends in a positive direction, if only in tiny ways.
emm, there are going to be many smart men who are going to want to marry your daughter.
Honey is a strange one, bee keepers are at times used to pollinate plants, so is it vegan to eat plants that are pollinated by animals? Drinking milk in the past was a great way of converting grass into a product that one could consume, unfortunately it has become industrialized and not symbiotic. Meat really isn’t an efficient way to produce food in modern times. Fishing, hunting, herding, etc. they all had been useful ways to survive. I don’t think that is the case now.
I am not a vegetarian, nor do I think I ever will be, but we have slowly added more meals without meat. I remember one time visiting my parents and ordering a pizza with mushrooms and black olives and they asked “no meat?” We just don’t consider meat every meal as a necessity these days.
Indian and Japanese food has many different meals that don’t involve animal products. Great food to look into.
Really, if you want to be vegan, I wouldn’t worry about reasons and just do it rather than wondering what one is supposed to do. Many diets are arbitrary and have things that are taboo to eat without any reason. People in the US would be disgusted with the idea of eating horse or dog, but why? I cannot see one reason that they should be different than a cow or pig. So why should one justify being vegan? Or anything else?
They must pass the test.
Camaraderie with the zombie-weird brother, and proper vetting by the 2 sisters.
My take on it: in the Vinaya, the monastic code for Buddhist monks and nuns, it
says that monks can eat meat that is placed in their bowl EXCEPT when the
animal has been killed for their sake. Monks were beggars and they took what
they got, usually. So this is the middle path tween ‘extremes.’
In this spirit, I try to minimize the harm I do. I go for days without eating meat,
I never eat beef or pork. I would like to eat still less meat but I don’t seem
to have the discipline. The main thing is that there are few hard rules, just a general
way of operating that tends to reduce harm. Also I figure meat is bad for me,
so harm to myself is included.
When it comes to leather products, I try to use leather that comes from an animal
that wasn’t slaughtered for its hide. So as not to create demand.
I’m not sure why I’m supposed to be a vegan, but I am anyway (nearly), because
it’s soy milk, etc. To lower cholesterol. Little cheese.
I find the ‘all or nothing’ approach very hard, but the ‘allow but minimize’ approach
a good deal easier.
I turned vegetarian (ovo-lacto-pesco, if you still call that vegetarian) as a teen but it wasn’t to annoy my parents. Although I was more eager to talk about my dietary choices when asked then than I am now, I waited until asked, and I never attacked anyone else’s choices. Vegetarianism is not an excuse for being rude. I find proselytizing of any sort very offensive, so I would never engage in dietary proselytizing.
When I was 17, a senior in high school, I read Diet For a Small Planet by Frances Moore Lappe. It convinced me that factory farming is bad for the planet, and I decided I didn’t want to support that any longer. I cut way back on eating meat but didn’t cook separate meals and didn’t insist on others cooking to meet my wishes. When I went away to college a few months later I stopped eating meat entirely. (That was pretty easy because dorm-food meat wasn’t particularly appetizing anyway. 
)
My original reason for avoiding meat was mainly environmental, but I am also repulsed by the conditions in which some food animals are forced to live, so there is an ethical aspect, too. Now, after 3 decades, it’s largely a habit. Those considering stopping eating meat should be aware that some of us lose the ability to digest it. I did. For me, hunting is fine (assuming, of course, that the harvest is sustainable, the animal is killed with as little pain and trauma as possible, and full use is made of the meat, hide, and anything else that could be used). We all have to die sometime, and if a moose lives a normal life as a wild animal, something is going to kill it and eat it eventually – it doesn’t bother me if that predator is a human, wolf, or bear. However, I do turn down caribou and moose, simply because I can’t digest red meat anymore. Even my desire to be polite in social situations is not strong enough to endure days of intestinal anguish. I think catch-and-release fishing is cruel and unethical – it’s harassing, maybe even torturing, a living being for sport – but I don’t see anything wrong with catching a fish, killing it, and eating it. I do eat wild fish, usually caught by someone I know, but sometimes bought in a restaurant. In fact, although I don’t miss eating beef at all, losing wild salmon from my diet would rank right up there with losing dark chocolate. 
It would never have occurred to me to think eating honey was unethical: as far as I know, living in a portable hive doesn’t erode the quality of a bee’s life – they still fly around and gather nectar, living normal bee lives.
As Emm noted, there are trade-offs and you have to decide how to live so that your self-imposed rules don’t become tyrannical. If your dietary rules are too strict, you can’t ever eat in a restaurant or accept food prepared by friends. That’s a social penalty I’m not prepared to pay. Eating seafood makes it pretty easy for me to find something I can order at a restaurant. I do try to ask if the fish is wild-caught. (Farmed fish, especially farmed salmon in my part of the world, are an ecological disaster waiting to happen/ already starting to happen.) Sometimes I eat seafood (but never salmon) of unknown origin. I drink milk and eat cheese and eggs that sometimes come from animals raised in a manner that I disapprove. There are social situations that override my dietary “rules,” and there are also economic, nutritional, and convenience concerns. It’s a lot easier to be sure everyone gets enough calcium and protein if dairy products are a regular part of the family diet. That has been a particular concern for me while raising kids. One kid is grown and in college now; the other is a teen girl and I’m glad she still consumes dairy after making a choice to be vegetarian. (Her bones will thank her when she’s 60.) But when she moves out in a few years, I’ll buy a lot less cheese.
As with all of life, you try to live according to your values, and you frequently find some values in conflict with others. You do the best you can.
I’m afraid the “pesco” part makes it “non-vegetarian” by definition (the Vegetarian Society of the UK, which coined the word “vegetarian” is very specific on that point). Doesn’t mean that it isn’t a good diet, and an ethical one (really, any diet chosen for ethical reasons is ethical!), but we veggies tend to be pretty strict on the definition of the word…after all, we invented it! (and after having so many people prepare “a special fish dish for the vegetarian,” we become more possessive than ever of the term!).
For myself, I never liked fish, and would have a hard time choking it down even to be polite (I have, however, eaten other forms of meat on occasion, to avoid offending or embarrassing a host who didn’t know any better). I even have a hard time eating a salad or baked potato in a restaurant where the smell of seafood is strong (I had the same problem when I ate meat, and have been known to lament that restaurants don’t have “fish” and “no-fish” sections!), though I wll try my best, to avoid making others feel uncomfortable. My husband CAN’T eat fish…he’s deathly allergic.
There’s nothing wrong with being an omnivore…it’s what our bodies are designed for, after all. Some people who do eat fish but prefer not to have red meat or fowl refer to themselves as “pescatarian,” which makes it clear that there are some things he/she would prefer not to eat.
Redwolf