My kids are writing a song about the legendary Black Dog. Sometimes called the Grimm, and various other things.
How does one pronounce Choin Dubh?
Thanks!
I’m thinking “Hone doov”
(The H is kinda phlemmy.)
Dunno about the first word but Dubh is usually pronounced doo in Scotland e.g. sgian dubh (skee-an doo)
By Gaelic you mean Scots Gaelic, right?
I would venture “GKHOO-in DOO”.
Cu being dog, pluralized and aspirated
“GKH” being not quite as long as the ‘ch’ in “ach”, as in: “Ach, yir no sober Jimmie.”
I’d say “Owen do” & then add the ‘ch’-of-‘ach’ in front of Owen
Cu , KOO
Cho, GKHOO: asp.
Choin, GKHOO-in: Pl + asp
It’s a really formal way of saying it, to my thinking.
Dont know how the “o” in “cu” got there. I learned it cu, cho, cuin, chuin, etc.
Edited to say: in Scots Gaelic.
Tricky thing but I would pronounce Choin as somewhere between Kween and a cough on the first syllable…the first syllable of Quote could fit alongside the ween bit I suppose.
Where I come from Dubh rhymes with move..that bit’s easy.
Slan,
D. 
Wyo, it looks like what they have is an inflected form. It would be useful to know the entire context of the line, since normally “choin dubh” wouldn’t exist as a “standalone”…at least in Irish.
To be honest, in Irish “choin” can’t exist at all. It’s either cú/an cú (nominative singular), con/an chon (genitive singular), cúnna/na cúnna (nominative plural) or con/na gcon (genitive plural). And if you’re using the genitive form “con,” the adjective has to inflect as well: “duibh.”
It’s also really important to know if we’re speaking of Irish or Scottish Gaelic. The two languages are similar and related, but functionally different (think Spanish and Portuguese). I don’t know about others here, but I have no Scottish Gaelic…only Irish. Normally, when one says “Gaelic” in English, one is speaking of Scottish Gaelic, whereas one uses “Irish” to refer to the language of Ireland.
I’m pretty damn good at Irish anymore (hovering on the brink of fluency), so if I can be of help at all, let me know.
Redwolf
Dooooove just doesn’t work, though, when we refer to you with the shortened version of your name…keeping the “haitch” at the end of course 
Unless one is in Ireland where they refer to a region where “Irish” is spoken a lot as “Gaeltacht”.
Irish people I know who are natives of Ireland speak to me in English
and when they speak to me in English they refer to their mother tongue
as “Gaelic” and it isn’t Scottish Gaelic I assure you.
Theres no sense in splitting this hair.
Let the topic starter clarify if the intention is Scots or Irish Gaelic.
And btw, why not talk them into doing a song on something thats not already been done by Led Zep , and has only one possible pronunciation? 
In Ulster as well (Ulster Irish being the closest to Scottish Gaelic).
Casual usage aside (and I’m well aware that older native speakers, especially, use “Gaelic” to refer to the language of Ireland), if you go out to buy a learning method, a grammar, or a dictionary and choose one that says “Gaelic,” it will be the language of Scotland you’re getting (which is fine, if that’s what you’re looking for, but if it’s Irish you’re after, it can be a problem). The distinction is minor unless you’re trying to get a translation into one language or the other, in which case it makes a huge difference. The Scots laid claim to “Gaelic,” and we use “Irish.” If you want to be ultra-careful, you can say “Irish Gaelic,” but the fact still remains, you need to specify.
Redwolf
Both are right. The ‘gaelic’ word for the Irish and Scottish languages is Gaeilge. Most people do not know what Gaeilge is so the term ‘gaelic’ is used by both Irish and Scotish to mean Gaeilge even though some Irish people use the terms ‘Irish’ or Irish gaelic’ also and some Scottish say Scottish, ‘Scottish gaelic’ to indicate the dialect or type of Gaeilge he/she may be using and/or referring to.
Actually, that’s not quite true. The (Scottish) Gaelic name for the language of Scotland is “Gàidhlig.” The Irish name for the language of Ireland is “An Ghaeilge,” and the Irish term for the language of Scotland is “Gaeilge na hAlbain.” They are considered different languages (along the lines of Spanish and Portuguese), not dialects of one another.
In any case, the fact remains that, if you go looking for dictionaries or learning methods for “Gaelic,” it is Scottish Gaelic that you will get. That’s the only real reason people belabor the point.
Redwolf
The > Irish > name for the language of Ireland is “An Ghaeilge,” and the > Irish > term for the language of Scotland is “Gaeilge na hAlbain.”
“Gaeilge na hAlbain.” This just means the Gaeilge of the Scots
As for the def. articles, ‘an’ is just the singular article and ‘na’ is the plural.
I did not specify above because I left it generic
We could say while refering to the two gaelic languages “na Gaeilge”.
i grew up in Dublin. My mother’s family all spoke Irish Gaelic and they refer to it a gaelic amongst themselves.
Gaelic in an emic reference amongst Irish speakers for their own native language and for the other [etic] it is they who split hairs and make references exclusive.
Perhaps this has to do with the fact the Scots had a working relationship a part of the UK and were able to record in English and in books about their language at a time when Irish engagement with their own language would result in transportation to Australia as a convict or some such punishment.
That quirk of history does not give a default right for Gaelic to be interpreted as a prima face reference to Scottish. Books written in English do not prescribe or restrict references for a language. That rests on the speakers.
Slan
Right or wrong, love, all I can tell you is that if you run out tomorrow to find a dictionary or learning method for the Irish language, it better say “Irish” on the cover, or it’s Scottish Gaelic you’ll be getting, regardless of what you prefer to call the language yourself. Hair-splitting or not, it’s a fact Irish speakers and learners have to live with.
I didn’t invent the convention, just passing along the information.
Redwolf
Well then, according to your default reading, this site would be attracting a lot of prospective Gaelic learners to Ireland thinking that they were going to learn Scottish Gaelic.
http://languagestudy.goabroad.com/listingsp3.cfm/listing/13114
You know, someone should be telling them fellas that they’d be breaching the Redwolf’s convention on the usage of Gaelic….
But of course it is correct and I have admitted that it is a quirk of history that the majority of books written about Gaelic were written by the people studying the language of our brethren over the Irish sea, in Scotland.
But no one is going to correct a book on Irish Gaelic named “Learn Gaelic in 20 easy lessons” or some such thing…. Or Welsh for that matter….
And what’s more you will see that just doing the net search so many of the books on the Scottish Gaelic clearly say “Scottish Gaelic” in the title….. Now that would not be a tautology…. Would it now…. I mean to say, Scots, I found to be minimal with their words….
You know I agree with the Chas fella - this is hair splitting… And how many people just buy a book on the title without perusing the contents somewhat?
Hi there Dreamy …
First, if that’s a chip you’re carrying on your shoulder, I suggest you leave it at the door. This board is a community with zero tolerance for trolling. If that’s not to your taste, you can look elsewhere.
Second, this new forum was started primarily as a resource for existing Chiffboard members drawn here by the music, but interested in learning more about the Irish language. In that context, engaging in hair-splitting sociolinguistic sophistry as a form of argumentation is inappropriate.
Third, Redwolf’s clarification is directed at etic, nonautochthonous learners, not native in situ speakers. So the usage of our matrilingual relatives is not necessarily germane. The fact that “Gaelic” needed to be clarified upthread here is prima facie evidence of its ambiguity. Redwolf has already acknowleged the variability of usage.
Fourth, others here can toss around ethnographic, folkloristic, and Latin jargon as well. So that won’t work as a form of intimidation.
Fifth, as a matter of practical advice, the trend in English language pedagogy and published materials has been to identify Irish Gaelic as “Irish”, and to reserve Gaelic with or without “Scottish” qualification for the Scottish variety. That is the sole intent of Redwolf’s point.
Empirically speaking, I have on my shelf at the moment the following from Irish, British, and American publishers, with not one mention of Gaelic in the titles:
Learning Irish
Teach Yourself Irish
Progress in Irish
Language/30 Irish
Irish on Your Own
Irish-English Dictionary
Perhaps the situation is different in Australia. But go to any bookstore here in the US, and you’ll find these alphabetized under “I”. If you’re looking for Scottish Gaelic, however titled, you’ll need to look under “G”.
Enough.
MTGuru, pissed-off Moderator