Ooh, I’ve been having trouble with my aluminium whistle.
It’s meant to be tunable but it stuck fast and no amount of freezing, twisting nor a succession of posturing, manly, brute force could shift it.
It was stuck around about in tune so was playable but I kept worrying it about it, so eventually took it back to it’s maker in desparation.
It took him nearly twenty minutes of vices, blow torches and wrenches, not to mention manly brute force, before it shifted. Worst he’d ever seen.
The problem? Aluminium corrosion. The oxide produced is one of the hardest things ever and meant the whistle was thoroughly stuck together.
The poor thing is nice and shiny now following a restorative polish, but there are some small marks where the vice gripped the body, so it has some battle scars but this doesn’t bother me at all. I felt like crying when I discovered I could move it and it plays a dream. Happy Days.
So I say unto you, make sure you keep your Aluminium whistles well lubed with vasoline and store apart when you can.
Was your whistle tunable be means of aluminium sliding on aluminium, or was there some other material separating the tubes acting as a slide, but it corroded nevertheless?
About the worst thing you kan do is to use vaseline to lube an aluminium on aluminium slide. At least this has been true on the few whistles I’ve made with such a slide. I don’t know what it is that does it but the sliding parts just stick to each other and when you take it apart you’ll have deep grooves in the slide’s surfaces. I have found it better to use lanolin or just plain axel grease, lanolin is better tho - no smell.
Now a days I use cork, a bit more work but it slides better and you can use vaseline, but I still wouldn’t recommend it.
Aluminium oxidisation is definitely a problem with aluminium whistles! The degree of the problem varies from player to player though. Generally the oxidisation takes place where you can’t see it, up in the mouthpiece in all those enclosed surfaces, although I have seen the interior badly corroded along the ‘dribble line’ and also externally from palm sweat. Apart from anodising the whistle during production there is no total prevention but regular cleaning with hot soapy water after playing will slow the process down. In my experience, aluminium tuning slides are not a satisfactory arrangement and brass/brass slides are much better, but again, keep them lubricated and apart in storage!
Vasoline was recommended by the maker to me rather than other lubricants.
I thought he might know best but maybe you are right. The one he plays himself appears to have a brass slide.
I love this whistle and am unlikely to be able to get another. I’ll just have to be careful in future I suppose. I’ve only had it a year and hoped it would last a lifetime but it won’t if I allow it to get jammed like this.
You could sand down the tenon to get a looser fit, then use PTFE tape to restore a tight fit and slide, at the same time avoiding the aluminium to aluminium contact.
Vasolene and similar products are mildly caustic and will react with aluminum (depending on the alloy) over time. It is best to leave it dry if you can. You could also try a “dry lube”. There are different kinds, but the one that I am talking about has microscopic teflon beads in a carrier that evaporates completely. I don’t like AL on AL tuning slides. They have a tendency to seize even if a little dust gets in the joint and scratches it. AL is a finicky material.
edit: to add accuracy. 6061-T6 is relatively stable compared to 2024-T3, which is easier to finish.
Aluminum to aluminum or any other metal contact is the worst. There is an electrical bond which takes place causing the joint to sieze. The resultant aluminum oxide is sapphire, a very hard mineral indeed. You should use an anti-sieze compound on the joint which will prevent the electrical bond. It only takes a thin smear. Auto supply stores carry it in aluminum or copper color. Most whistle manufacturers are unaware of the product but are very familiar with the problem of siezing. Mechanics routinely use it to prevent bolts or spark plugs from siezing in aluminum engine blocks. I had to turn on my bicycle mechanic onto it years ago. They were tearing up very expensive aluminum bike parts, frozen together due to siezing, even though using other grease. Since using anti-sieze compound there have been no further problems.
FWIW, I use o-rings. They prevent the metal from ever touching. Brass on brass tuning slides seem absolutely stable. The problem with AL is that it oxidises in air. You would have the same problem with unoiled steel. Oil stops (or at least slows) oxidation on steel, but it can actually accelerate oxidation on aluminium.
“Galvanic corrosion” is what happens when dissimilar metals are in physical contact, such as a steel bolt in an aluminium thread. The anti-seize compound for aluminium is an oxygen absorbing lubricant. It works great on threads, but I doubt that it will work for long on parts that are intended to move.
wow. you guys are awesome. how do you know these things? i love this board so much.
anyway, i used to have a goldie; it had an alum tuning slide i think. he deliberately seems to make the tuning slide loose, then wraps it in plumbers tape. i didn’t have it that long (traded it for a crooked whistle but it never seized on me. now it makes sense why he did it that way (i wondered).
As I said, sand down the tenon end and use plumber’s PTFE tape. It is a simple and quick modification to make. And if you are in touch with the maker, ask him to do it for you. No need for the whistle to die.
Damn. My wife read that and is busy taping my aluminum whistles together and hiding them in the basement. You’ve got to be more careful about what you say here…
I’m an electrician when not playing my whistle. There is a anti-corrosion compound made for aluminum that we put on aluminum wire before terminating it to keep it from corroding. We call it “Nolox”. I don’t know if that is a product name. It works like never seize but is more grease like. Worth a look.
Is that true? I thought saphire was a compound of carbon - like diamond. Seems I was very wrong. Does that mean that my red anodised MK Low D is actually coated in RUBY!!?
I love it even more now
PS what about cork grease? Ive used it for ages on my alloy whistle. Provided you don’t ‘fit and forget’ and you MAINTAIN (Key word there…!) your whistle’s slide there should be no issues.
Corundum is a crystaline form of aluminum oxide. And yes both rubies and sapphires come from corundum with other mineral elements combining for the color.
Interesting stuff aluminum oxide. It’s really tough stuff. It is frequently used as an industrial abrasive. A thin layer of aluminum oxide forms immediately on aluminum from exposure to oxygen when it is not coated. So that’s why the wear in uncoated aluminum joints will eventually occur. But interestingly, if you anodize aluminum it protects the surface. But doesn’t anodizing just build a controlled layer of aluminum oxide on the surface? Do I have that right? Are they different oxides?
Hmm… I gotta say I agree with the idea that Vasoline is not so good for tuning slides. It is not thick enough and has too low of a melting point. It becomes oily when it gets warm instead of staying greasy. The cork grease is a better option but as the name suggests is designed for organic joints made from… cork! An even better solution is tuning slide grease. The same stuff used by brass players (trumpets, trombones and the like) for most of the last century. You can find a little pot of the really good stuff at a regular music store for about $6 and the amount you need to use means that supply will last 10-15 years. not a bad investment for the return and it’s performance.
Also, the idea of storing the whistle apart doesn’t make any sense. I understand the idea that you are trying to avoid the two pieces from corroding together, but leaving greased (or as suggested, vaselined) tuning slide out in the open is just asking for every speck of dust that floats by to stick to the surface. This will become wedged in the space between inner and outer slides lead to sticking.
Instead, push the slide all the way in when storing the instrument. If the whole point is to avoid oxidation, then keep the oxygen from touching that part of the slide. A thin layer of tuning slide grease will prevent that and be aided by the physical fitting of the slide being closed fully. Also no dust or lint will get to the sliding portions of the tuning slide when being stored.
Start with the slide apart and totally wipe it clean with a soft lint free cloth. If necessary wash it with some dish soap that is good at cutting grease. You ultimately want the touching surfaces of both slide parts totally clean and dry. Do the same with the inside of the outer slide. Apply a thin coat of tuning slide grease to the inner slide and then insert it fully into the outer slide. Now remove it. You now have a thin layer of grease on the inside of the outer slide! Reapply some more grease to the inner slide. Put the whistle together. Should work pretty smooth. When your are done playing, push it together. You will only have to relube your whistle every 6 months or so. Even with heavy playing.
but it never seized on me. now it makes sense why he did it that way (i wondered).
Reapply some more grease to the inner slide. Put the whistle together. Should work pretty smooth. When your are done playing, push it together. You will only have to relube your whistle every 6 months or so. Even with heavy playing.