I’m a new flute player with no nearby instructors, so I’ve come here to C&F to spill all of my questions thus far. Feel free to chime in on any of the bullets as I’m kind of asking a lot of different questions. Also, I hope I don’t come off as spammy as I’ve posted a few threads already
I purchased a keyless African Blackwood as my first flute. It has been incredible so far and I’m really enjoying it. However, I need to disassemble and clean it every time I finish playing it so it’s not really at the ready like a whistle. Would it be worthwhile to pick up a plastic-based flute that can leave assembled at all times to play whenever? Or do embouchures between flutes vary significantly so I would only be making things frustrating as a beginner?
Maybe a related question - why is it so common for people to sell flutes? Is it economics since they’re expensive? Is it because embouchures between flutes aren’t transferrable? Is it because it’s a pain to maintain multiple flutes? I guess I’m curious why I see so many flutes for sale compared to whistle players who are hoarders
How important is “breath support” for wooden flutes? I feel like it is emphasized so much by the classical crowd but I don’t hear much of it regarding wooden flute. I’ve tried tensing my abs when breathing, but in all honesty, I don’t feel like it’s making that big of difference in capabilities. I’m probably ignorant, but it seems like tensing my abs (for seemingly no benefit) goes against the concept of playing relaxed
I’ll touch on this one. There’s no wooden flute store nearby where you can try out the wares of several different makers or several different models of the same maker. Maybe at a session or a workshop or some event there might be some to try — but then again, post Covid, that may not be feasible. Also, players tastes and capabilities change over time leading to seeking a different flavored instrument.
In my case, I purchased, played and ultimately sold perhaps 20 flutes before finding what I was looking for. Some very nice instruments passed through my hands (and hopefully have found good homes) while I looked for one that fit my jaw configuration, breath capability, tonal preference, finger spacing fit, interest in having keys, and other personal needs/desires.
It’s certainly less expensive to acquire a whole stack of whistles — often with just pocket cash. But I’ve found whistles to be less variable than flutes so they may tend to stick where the variety among flutes is rather greater. And, it’s not unusual to find vintage/historic flutes about whereas it’s uncommon, if not unrealistic, to find a 200 year old whistle.
Others may find additional reasons but those are some of mine.
Steve, I appreciate the response. It sounds likes flutes in general may have more variations that pique certain interests of individuals. My obvious next question - what made you keep trying new flutes? Was it pure curiosity followed by continued curiosity? What was the ‘tick’ that made you keep experimenting to 20 flutes versus stopping at 5?
Alright, I’ll have a go at answering (in-between your questions).
Yes. I have a few Delrin flutes for just such occasions. Why a few? Different tone, playability, fun, Rudall vs. Pratten-style. Also, an Eb besides those in D. No F, C or low (B, Bb, A) flutes. Of course, many different wood flutes, too, keyed or keyless.
Sometimes that may be an issue. Part of why selling takes place - attempting to find those most comfortable & worthwhile to play. Same is true of whether one prefers in-line vs. offset toneholes, or a split body to adjust left/right hand position for comfort.
It can be economics. Flutes often aren’t cheap, especially keyed flutes (antique or modern). I like to buy bargains, then may sell to fund another, more intriguing purchase. Or try to upgrade from keyless to keyed flutes, sometimes from the same maker, if I like their flutes. I budget credit card rewards, grocery coupons, and other savings towards new purchases.
When embouchure cuts don’t seem to suit me, or the physical profile (thickness or taper) hurts my hand, I may move those flutes on. Tuning and response matter, too. Why fight the flute that doesn’t have enough reward for you? Additionally, as my musical preferences change, there is always the tendency to seek the tone I would like. Every once in a while, I do A<->B comparisons, and decide which I’d like to keep, for now. Lately, I’ve been keeping everything, but I do need to do some house maintenance (roof, foundation, etc.), so something may need to go soon.
I don’t see where tensing “abs” would be useful to any player, Boehm or otherwise. That’s not how breathing happens. But yes, breath support is a thing. Check out videos or diagrams on how the diaphragm works, and possibly how other muscles affect how well you take in and use air.
Breath support does make a noticeable difference, but to hear it you need to (a) have an embouchure that is sufficiently focused and (b) do it properly. If your embouchure is too loose, the sound will be very windy and you probably won’t hear much difference. As for doing it correctly, first you have to make sure you breathe from the lower part of your lungs (abdominal breathing). Then, many people (myself included, initially) think they should try to push the air out with their belly. That’s not how it works at all, and in fact it’s quite the opposite: you’re trying to create some resistance so that your rib cage doesn’t collapse on exhale and your air doesn’t escape too fast. The goal is to release the air in a controlled fashion. Have a look at how classical singers do it. A metaphor that I found extremely helpful when learning was to try to inhale on the exhale. The idea is to keep this feeling of belly expansion (forward, backward and sideways) as you blow your air out. Feel which muscles are engaged when you breathe in, and keep them engaged (not “tensed”) when you breathe out. Another metaphor often used is to think of your lungs as a balloon that you’re trying to keep inflated for as long as you can. I hope this helps.
Yes. To expand on that. I was talking recently - in a non musical context - with someone who works with singers as a voice coach. I said I played flute and we had a few words about similarities and he highlighted a couple of things. Afterwards I did some ‘revision’. If we take a very full breath as for the start of playing a long phrase, hold it by blocking our throat or lips, and relax our breathing muscles, we feel pressure. That’s not muscles working, its the elastic recoil of our lungs and other tissues that get stretched. That pressure and the flow we get if we release it are too great for playing flute until we get well into the exhale. If we hold the full breath without blocking off throat or mouth we are using the same muscles that we just used to inhale. Part of breath support is using the inhalation muscles ‘antagonistically’ to control the exhalation. I have seen research that suggests that the exhalation muscles are then available for fine control (e.g vibrato and ‘diaphragm pushes’) until we get to where we would have more control if we took another breath. If I remember rightly Grey Larsen in his book suggests that the end of the breath where we have to push the air out of our chests should be an ‘emergency reserve’.
The muscles that we use for breathing are mainly not ones that are obvious to us. Because we can all consciously do things with our abs they tend to get too much attention.
Your comment has been the most insightful to me thus far. People keep saying that “breath support restricts the release of air” which is true, however, so does having a super small embouchure. It seems like both breath support and embouchure helps restrict the release of air, but they are separate variables that contribute. I really like your comment about taking a full breath of air and then only restrict it by blocking your throats or lips and relaxing your breathing muscles. This highlights that you can indeed restrict your release of air without using your breathing muscles, but it feels wrong. I’m starting to think that I may have been using “breath support” this entire time, but doing so subconsciously to the point I didn’t understand why there was so much emphasis on it.
For over 20 years I played a c1830 Boxwood flute with a three-piece body. Taking it apart, swabbing all the sections, and carefully putting it in its original case was for me simply the sine qua non of playing that flute, almost a ritual one could say. Ditto when I switched to a c1860 Cocus wood flute.
Whether you want to get a 2nd flute, a Delrin/Polypenco one, is up to you of course, but every Delrin flute I’ve played was excessively heavy, no thanks.
They do. Whenever I try a different flute yes I can get a good tone immediately, enough to evaluate the flute at a basic level. But it takes me several days of daily practice with a new flute to really understand the nuances of what it does.
Essentially flutes are flutes. I’ve played Boehm flutes and Baroque flutes and 19th century wood 8-key orchestral flutes and new Irish flutes and Indian bamboo flutes, all of them of varying blow-hole styles, and your embouchure gets used to quickly adapting to whatever flute is put to your lips.
For sure it’s cheaper to hoard $7 instruments than $3,000 instruments.
I don’t think there’s any issue maintaining multiple flutes, because while they’re resting in their cases (assuming good cases and they’re not exposed to extremes of temperature and humidity) there’s no maintenance involved. (So very different in this way than Highland pipes. Each set of Highland pipes needs regular, periodic playing to stay in playing condition.)
The issue, rather, is the expense of maintaining multiple flutes, having thousands of dollars sitting in cases not being played, money which could be used for other purposes.
About transferability of your embouchure to the blow-holes of various flutes as I was saying the more different flutes you play the more adaptable your embouchure becomes.
I think the main reason, touched on above by others, is that fluteplayers might be more susceptible than most musicians to the Quest for the Holy Grail syndrome.
No matter how good your flute is, there’s a nagging belief in the back of your mind that somewhere out there is a better one. So, you try every flute you can get your hands on whether that means buying, borrowing, or just giving a quick blow.
There’s a thing I’ve seen repeatedly at festivals: fluteplayers will congregate, standing in a little circle, flutes in hand.
Step 1: The conversation quickly turns to what flutes everybody has.
Step 2: Flutes are passed around the circle for a show-and-tell.
Step 3: Everyone starts trying everybody else’s flutes. This can take a while.
Step 4: Getting serious. Headjoints are taken off and index fingers are pushed down into the tops of the flute bodies to assess the relative bore sizes of the various flutes.
Step 5: Now things are coming to a head, literally. Headjoints are being swapped between flutes to discover how each headjoint plays on each body. This usually involves somebody having to locate some thread/hemp/string to make all the headjoints fit.
Inevitably these interactions will lead at least one of the fluters to conclude that his flute isn’t as good as somebody else’s flute, and the Quest continues.
As I said flutes are flutes, and breath support is necessary for good tone on flutes of any sort. It’s especially true (as was discussed on another thread) to get full rich solid low notes on many conical-bore wooden flutes, which often have slightly flat and/or stuffy low notes. Bottom D often requires special support.
However I think the core of your question is the dichotomy I’ve often commented on:
The physical differences between Boehm flutes and “Irish” flutes.
The conceptual differences between the Boehm flute culture and the Irish flute culture, affecting nomenclature, pedagogy, myths, etc.
We have to keep in mind that the Boehm flute world is the modern embodiment of hundreds of years of unbroken teacher>pupil transference of technique and pedagogy going at least back to the 18th century. The Boehm flute corpus of teaching material is vastly greater than that for “Irish” flute because there’s simply so much more teaching going on.
So not surprising to hear that there’s not as much talk about breath support in the Irish flute world as in the Boehm flute world.
I think the main reason, touched on above by others, is that fluteplayers might be more susceptible than most musicians to the Quest for the Holy Grail syndrome.
No matter how good your flute is, there’s a nagging belief in the back of your mind that somewhere out there is a better one. So, you try every flute you can get your hands on whether that means buying, borrowing, or just giving a quick blow.
Yeah. That’s about it!
On the one hand: “Each person sounds like themselves, no matter what flute.”
On the other hand: “Each flute is different”.
Some makers are remarkably consistent, but even within the same maker there are variations in embouchure, design, quality, tone, playability, etc. From a modern maker, there may be a small, medium & large hole version.
My interest has been antique English flutes, as you can get a high quality cocus 8-key flute for $1,500 - $4,000. I can definitely say that the well-known Rudall & Rose flutes vary quite a bit.
