advice

I started playing the whistle in august. Playing came natural and easily, but I learned with my right on top of my left. I now have a teacher who will also be teaching me the pipes, who wants me to switch so that I’ll learn the standard way. My quandry is that the whistle came so easy with my right on top, but my left on top is painfully slow and uncoordinated- and frankly really bumming me out. The teacher said she would be able to teach me whistle and pipes backward, but she would prefer me to learn the standard way.

I am afraid that I will get too discouraged. Suggestions? Thoughts? I also wonder if there is a left/right brain correlation with the hands. Why would the right on top be soooooo much easier?

help.

I posted this on the whistle board as well and am wondering what the pipers think in terms of future piping.

I also started with the whistle (in my youth) with my right hand on top (despite being right handed). I took up the pipes four-plus years ago and ran into the same snag. I didn’t want to play the pipes “lefty” as I presumed that there are fewer of them and I presumed that the regs would come easier with my right hand. I also didn’t want to start over with the whistle either. My UP teacher told me to drop the whistle for a while, and I have backed off a bit but more so because I need lots of piping practice and I like them some much. Ultimatel, I still found it easier to learn tunes that I knew on the whistle easier to learn on the pipes and visa versa than from scratch as the tune is really in your head when you play it by memory and by ear. Therefore, I would be to affraid of the slight disadvantage of the switching of hands. If you must switch, I would switch the whistle playing rather than the pipes.

Best of luck!

Either way, the fingering fights off arthritus!

It may be too far in the future for you to envisage right now, but some day you will want to be able to play a full set of UPs, but with your right hand in the wrong position, you will be unable to reach the regs. Teacher knows best, I’m afraid.

djm

Probably because you have 8 months worth of muscle memory trained into your arms from playing right on top. I doubt it would have made much of a difference to you back in August.

You’re holding the chanter as left-handed player would, which is not an issue if you are, in fact, a leftie. But if you’re a righty, then down the road you’ll be in a quandry if you want to play the regulators. You’ll also be commited to left-handed instruments, which can be more difficult to come by. As if any good set of uilleann pipes is easy to come by.

Are you left handed? If you are, stay that way if it is more comfortable for you. Pipes can be made for left handed people as easily as right handed. A recently acquired friend of mine just recieved his left handed Sloan half set. Another friend of mine, whistle and flute player Sean Conway is left handed. If you are right handed, then I am afraid that you will need to learn left hand on top if you wish to regulate down the road. And if you are ambidextrous, disregard any or all of what I have just written. :slight_smile:

I’m left handed and learned to play whistle the way that felt natural to me…right hand on top, left on bottom (left handed).

I play pipes the same way (left handed) as I did not want to throw out 2 years of learning and play right handed, since it did not feel correct to me. While LH sets are more rare, they are easily made by a pipemaker. Also, you can use a right handed chanter (if there are no keys) and play it left handed without problems

Regards,
Gary

Well, that would be true if you were playing left handed and bought a right handed set of pipes. That would be a bit like shipping a car from the UK to Canada and trying to drive it from the front passenger seat.

jenaceae, this has been discussed before, so if you want to read through pages of drivel on the matter, do a search. If you are comfortable doing what you’re doing, then keep doing it. I’m left-handed, I play a left-handed set of pipes, and I love it. There are plenty of people who are sorta ambidextrous when it comes to this stuff (ie, they play the whistle left-handed and then switch hands when playing flute or pipes) but there are also plenty of pipers who are utterly outstanding that play left-handed. Note that not all people who play left handed are actually left-handed, they just started with the right hand on top, got used to it and that’s what they’re most comfortable doing. If anyone, be they a teacher or otherwise, tells you that you shouldn’t be playing left-handed, tell them that they’re on drugs, and suggest that they take up the matter with Sean McKiernan, Davy Spillane, Pat Broderick, Michael McGoldrick, or if they’re really itching for a fight, myself.

Too lazy to read earlier replies but..
I Started playing whistle “lefthanded” as well.
My pipemaker asked if i was lefthanded.., nope.
He then adviced to get a righthanded set.., i did.., no problem!
If you have to start from scratch with the pipes and only been playing the whistle a few months the conversion to right handed isn’t a big problem imho.

Good luck!

It doesn’t really matter I don’t think in terms of getting good at playing pipes or anything else, and as pointed out, you can have left handed pipes easily made. A lot of left-handed guitarists and bass players out there and so on.

Having said this, the very concept of a “left handed” Highland piper was eradicated maybe 50-60 years ago and even before then it was rare as hell and you could number the left handed Highland pipers that ever existed on less than one hand I think. You can’t march together for one thing with even one guy carrying the pipes on the “wrong” shoulder.

And I’ll even count the few pipers who had finger accidents and switched left and right hands to save a birl or whatever, but who kept playing with the bag under the left arm.

Ever hear of a left-handed pianist? Hmm. Think about it.

Ever hear of anyone even noting that this or that pianist is better/worse because of being left handed? How would you know? You wouldn’t and you dont. There’s no such thing as a left-handed piano.

The harp in fact, used to be played pipe-oriented, left hand high and right hand low, and now it’s been reversed to conform to keyboard layout orientation. Does anyone even know the difference? Ever hear people talking about a left-handed harp?

What turned out to be absolutely true in Highland piping is that anyone being taught the pipes in the conventional so-called “right hand” orientation from the beginning, left handed or not, learned as quickly and as proficiently as anyone else, right handed or not. There is no practical advantage to learning with one hand or the other on top or bottom relative to whatever your favored hand is. Likewise, in the now hundreds of years old, most heavily institutionalized, studied, regimented, and thoroughly proven piping system in the world, it is universally conceded that “handedness” has no historically noted discernable effect on learning, mastering, or expressing the music or instrument.

And more to the point, those who claim they picked up whistle or pipes “left handed” because it “felt more natural” should also note that most people hold whistles, and pipes in particularly like prissy-little recorders or clarinets, which, however “natural” it “feels,” is dead wrong, so nearly everyone has to learn a flat, piper-style grip on the chanter anyway, so doing what “feels natural” is probably wrong in the first place and you may have more troubles than getting one hand on top of the other one. You aren’t a piper. Who cares what feels natural to you? Think about it. Really. And if you’re started out one way, a universal way, you will be only then made a piper, and by that time what will feel natural to you is the only way you’ve ever played, only now you will be a piper–so even though your opinion will now count, your opinion invariably will be that it feels natural to play the way you already do.

So it remains academic what hand you prefer to learn as a non-player.

Royce

That does it…I’m going to take up ‘air-pipes’, and play ‘no-handed’ from here on in :laughing: Who knows, maybe the world will be a safer place to live as a result :smiley:

Royce, they may all have been died off in the States, but I don’t think you’d get very far with a statement like that out in the Islands, or indeed anywhere north of the Highland Line (not counting the fact that every Gaelic speaking piper I’ve ever met can play either hand up with equal facility anyway). There are still more than a handful of practicing lefties out there, even if they don’t care to be world famous.

That said, I would agree there’s nothing in it technically.

Cheers,
Calum

See Calum’s post.

You ever hear of Willie Morrison? Done quite well in solo competitions, apparently. Was playing with Scottish Power’s Grade 1 band when last I heard.

You’ll have to include the states and Canada and well, even the Highlands. I of course was probably limiting myself to “great” left handed pipers, meaning, those playing at a level where they’d be able to make a qualified estimate of the difference. If you’re getting drunk once a week and playing “Scotch on the Rocks” (or piobaireachd) and that’s what you consider being a “piper,” then it’s a bit ridiculous to be claiming you need to learn left-handed, when you’d just plain sound bad either way.

And of course, you seem to be talking about “Gaelic” or “Gaelic Revival” piping, which is another matter entirely.

And you’ve made my point, because if as you suggest, outside the standardization of the Army/Academic institutions pipers end up essentially ambidextrious, how critical could it really be to have to tie in your pipes on the “wrong” side and deal with, at least in band circles, all the resultant logistical problems?

I’ll follow this up with Sporting Pitchfork, because I think he’s raising another issue that I think falls into the “grasping at straws” category of desperately trying to catch me up on something.

Royce

I must address this inference you seem to be making that I in any way even implied that learing left-handed in a left-handed setup is any sort of a disadvantage. I mean, you have this tone of rebuttal in the above quote when you seem to be rebutting an argument I not only didn’t make, but went to some lengths to argue against.

You name in rebuttal one left-handed piper playing with one grade one world-class band. Did you do a count of how many other left-handed pipers showed up in the circles at the World’s this year? I imagine you were there. So, there was Willie, and…? Uh, Willie Morrison, and then there was, er…

And of course the other 20 or so pipers in Scottish Power played, uh right-handed? And how many other left handed pipers are they playing in the conventional “right handed” positions eh? I think statistically one in about four or five are left handed, so in every band in the world at every level, we should expect two or more left-handed players to be playing in the conventional “right-hand” position, unfettered by this arrangement, and taking all the same prizes in solo contests as Willie. (This you may recall, was actually my argument.)

So, of all the Gold-Medalists in the history of the contest, how many played in left-handed configuration? And how many can you say were left handed and played in conventional layout? I don’t think you or anyone else has made that sort of investigation, because, as I say, conceptually, the notion of playing Highland pipes in a special “left handed” layout, has not only died, but is considered rather suspect in most reputable schools and so forth. It’s pointless. If you insist on learning that way, well, you’re stuck with it and fine, but nobody will give you any encouragement on that score. Nobody is going to sit you down and say, “are you left-handed?” they’re just going to show you how to hold the chanter like everyone else, you’ll never know the difference and the subject will never come up unless you personally make it your own crusade as a student.

Generations and generations of highly regimented, intense, thoroughly tested, judged, and evaluated Highland performance has without any doubt established that handedness simply makes no difference at all.

Now, I can’t account for every sheep-worrying Highlander or Islander out in the Hinterlands playing left-handing, sitting down, in the “authentic Gaelic style” or otherwise. But being blessed with such knowledgeable debaters here, like yourself, I’m sure you can provide us with a list of history’s notable left-handed, left-hand configuration Highland pipers in a few days or so. You can start with winners of the major prizes, and members or pipe majors/officers of grade one bands, and you only have to go back over the last 50 years, because that’s the context in which I phrased my generalized statements.

What I suggest, is that you are going to come up with a list of a handful, five, six, eight, whatever, who played pipes in left handed configuration and held a notable position in a band or solo contests. I used these institutions particularly because they have indisputably cultivated over the decades, incredibly high levels of technical proficiency in the instrument and music. The debate is framed in terms of technical proficiency mind you. If you want to argue that the non-standardized “Gaelic” players are more “soulful” or “authentic” that’s another argument. Others might argue that they’re undisciplined, sloppy hacks so they might as well swap hands back and forth because they’re not required to be all that specialized and thus shouldn’t figure into the debate.

What you will come up with, if such statistics are kept, is hundreds of left-handed players in the most visible, institutionalized and public schools of the instrument, who simply learned in the standard configuration, achieved all these high standards of proficiency, and never gave it a moment’s thought or pause.

And more importantly, as I pointed out, you’re going to find thousands of pipers playing in conventional setups, left or right handed, for every one or your left-handed, left-handed setup players you can dig out of the history books or the obscure little bands playing down in the basement of grade one in the wilds of remote Scotland or elsewhere.

Contrary to your suggestion, naming one left-handed Highland player you can think of after obviously some motivated pondering, does little to refute my basic contention. I know you’ve written as if you think it’s a resounding condemnation of my unfamiliarity with the matter, but truly, it’s a pretty feeble, obtuse swipe that misses the mark entirely.

(By the way, does he simply swap hands, or has he set up his pipes backwards to play on the right arm? I don’t recall seeing this in Scottish Power photos/videos.)

What you need to research is left-handed players who play right-handed pipes and do just fine. You’re going to find scores and scores of them playing right now. And you’re going to find that neither they or their instructors ever gave any serious thought to learning or teaching them to hold the pipes backwards because of “handedness.” I don’t think I can make it any clearer.

In uilleann piping the proportion of left-handed setups to left-handed players is extremely high, extremely high compared to Highland pipers, because, for whatever reason, including a far less structured tutorial tradition, uilleann students get the notion into their heads that if they are left-handed they need to get a set of pipes made backward for them or they won’t be able to play.

This latter, as I have already stated, is fundamentally untrue.


Royce

You make it sound like playing left handed on left handed pipes is somehow a bad thing. Should Upiping become an area that is rigidly structured and people tell me exactly how I have to do something, I would want nothing to do with it (or them).

While having a lefthanded set for a left hander is probably not REQUIRED, given time and effort we could probably learn on a right handed set…which is I believe your point…but why should we?

Because the mighty Royce says so of course!
Have you learned nothing from this board? sheesh! :wink:

Ladies and Gentlemen, we present Royce, the only person on God’s Green Earth who might think it worthwhile to write a three thousand word essay refuting trivialities.

And BTW, no, I wasn’t referring to hacks, Gaelic or otherwise. I was talking about the huge numbers of GHB players from Pitlochry to Barra to Cape Wrath who have never been near a competition platform in their life and could blow every piper that does right off it. They don’t much care whether they should play left or right handed, and neither does anyone else.

Cheers,
Calum

Sorry, I forgot me-self for a moment. I’m just a lowly newbie, not really supposed to have an opinion.. :blush: :roll:

Dude, Royce, you must chill, man.

Okay, yes. The proportion of Highland pipers out there that play left-handed is pretty low (and for the record, I seem to recall that Morrison plays a left-handed set with the bag under the right arm). During my time in Scotland, I only met three. However, for what it’s worth, they were all superb. Most left-handed Highland pipers play right-handed sets (Iain MacDonald springs to mind) simply because their teachers told them to play that way. Makes no difference. No one’s going to say that Iain MacDonald’s playing is lacking something because he’s a lefty playing like a righty.

At the end of the day, it comes down with what you’re most comfortable with. If you’re left-handed and you feel like re-training yourself to play like a right-handed person, that’s fine and in the end you’ll likely sound every bit as good. But if you feel more comfortable with a left-handed instrument, I see no reason why you shouldn’t be able to play that way…which is the reason why this thread got started.

If you look at old paintings and prints of orchestral musicians dating from the Baroque or Classical eras, it’s not uncommon to occasionally come across someone holding their recorder or oboe backwards. Even today, the odd left-handed antique flute pops up (flutemaker Terry McGee’s webpage has some pictures I think). The standardization of instruments as being “right-handed” really only dates from when they began to be mass-produced–something that has never been the case for uilleann pipes.

How can you so miss my point? I even included disclaimers precisely explaining that this is neither good nor bad, it is irrelevant in terms of learning to play and play well. And furthermore, in spite of lengthy argument and example, you close with the suggestion that learning right handed is going to be some eventual task accomplished at additional effort. L didn’t make this point at all. I said there is no statistical difference in either time effort or outcome.

This simply can’t be argued in Highland piping or pianos. I don’t know if they even make left-handed saxophones or bassoons or whatnot. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a left-handed violinist–or even fiddler. It is no additional effort for the “lefty,” when starting uillean pipes in the standard configuration, irrespective of “handedness,” any more than it is for the right-handed guitarist to learn a standard “right handed” guitar position in which it is his left-hand that does most of the work.

Learn to play either way you want, but don’t do it based on some notion that it is an advantage. If you started on whistle backwards and have years of playing behind you and now want to move to pipes, well, I think you’re stuck with a left-handed set. Otherwise, if you’re starting fresh, you really ought to question your motivation for having a left-handed set made and learning the pipes in that configuration.

I’m not telling you what to do. I’m just telling you the truth. What you do about it is up to you.

Royce