I just fielded another complaint arising from a dispute on this board and I’d like to make an observation and then ask for opinions about a general topic.
The Chiff & Fipple boards largely move along without problems, for which I am grateful. Once in awhile–about every other week or so–I’ll get a complaint about this or that. Usually not a big deal and usually quick to pass. Then, from time-to-time I get a particularly bitter complaint. Almost without exception, they come from this forum. Almost always, the nut of the complaint is a perceived threat to the complainer’s business or reputation. Sometimes the complaints are entirely legitimate responses to particularly nasty critiques and sometimes they are entirely over-reactions to the slightest perceived critique. But, there is very often a kind of nastiness of tone that I don’t see anywhere else on these boards. Also, I am forced to conclude that, among pipers, there are lots of people who are particularly prone to threaten litigation.
The only explanation I can think of is that, as opposed to whistles, there is a lot of money involved in the pipes marketplace, as opposed to the whistle marketplace. But, I’m not convinced this is the reason there is relatively much more trouble from this forum than others. I would reiterate at this point that I know this forum usually goes on in a relatively peaceful manner. I’m just wondering why the great share of trouble comes out of this forum. I’m not trying to make a statement here. I’m asking.
Ideas?
Dale
P.S. I figure sooner or later, someone from this board will sue me, as technical “publisher”. If so, I hope it makes the papers because it would sure be a funny story.
Pipes are way more expensive than whistles (more than 50x), require much maintenance and after-care (most often demanding that a user goes to a pipemaker for advice and reeds, etc), don’t always work the same way due to the weather, have long lead times to acquire (years from the highly regarded makers), don’t tune like other instruments, have no exact standard for what is acceptable tuning in any event, are difficult to get a consistent program of instruction on, are most often sold to beginners who don’t have easy access to someone to consult with and assist with the purchasing decision and/or acquisition.
Customers and pipemakers in disputes is almost part of the tradition and lore by now. A pipemaker’s business model can be a fragile one - if one’s reputation is attacked, that can immediately affect the backlog.
Quote frae Chuck 15 June 2003"I have found this forum very helpful and very entertaining"…so stop sucking up to sir!!!
Presumably this has something to do with A paying up front for goods from B and then waiting (shall we say 5years?) for delivery of same.When A complains and seeks redress B comes up with what appears to be a pile of nonsene.Having been exposed thus B threatens to take legal action?
Come on Dale even a blind man can see this is pure whinging frae a very untypical pipemaker…who if said artisan had any sense would try and rectify the matter speedily and certainly would be better employed doing so than wasting your time and everyone else’s.
I think if the same situation occured with just about any goods of any description there would be a reaction between the A and B’s of this world and it is not an attribute solely of pipers.
Anyways I say pistols at dawn would save all this!!!
Dale, could you not save yourself somewhat from legal action by posting some sort of legalese-peppered statement of not taking responsibility for the views expressed by forum members?
Is this issue being prompted by the case Uilliam refers to above, where a forum member paid for a set of pipes from a pipemaker, and then used the UP forum to publicly embarass the pipemaker into responding to the purchaser? Is it about something else?
Also, if you are uncomfortable about receiving these backdoor threats and complaints, but are satisfied with the general forum discussions that generated the complaints, you could always opt to post the complainers’ letters. That would make the complainers think twice about trying to whinge in the dark.
Like was said, a set of pipes cost a lot of money so when you order one, pay it and you don’t get it i can see that you get angry.
Posting about it here is ok imho so everyone knows how pipemaker so and so deals with his customers.
The other way around is also quite possible as i just heared.
My pipemaker now has a full set in B ready and notified the customer (someone posting here and with quite a big mouth about how hard pipemakers have it) who then happilly cancelled the order!!??
And no downpayment because my pipemaker doesn’t ask those.
Shouldn’t he now let other pipemakers know about this person??
Should he demand a % of the set price?
There’s a lot of stuff going on in pipers/pipemakers land that is imho NOT DONE and i think it’s fine to openly state that.
Dale, I think there are several reasons for this. As Uilliam wrote in his “hypothetical” scenario, some pipe makers create a lot of unnecessary fodder for themselves. Communication would be a great concept for some pipe makers to add to their business plan.
If you have say a five year waiting list (just following Uilliams example, mined you) and you loose some orders from bad press and the list is shrunk to say four years. I think this will hurt your pride more than your business. Even if you have a two year waiting list, you have solid work for two years, and if you keep up a good reputation (i.e. good instruments, relatively on time, and communicate with patrons) you will have plenty of new orders coming in over those two years.
I also feel that a number of makers are unnecessarily maligned, but some of the info is quite useful for the pipers and perspective pipers who are dishing out sooo much money.
Also the personality of an individual to take up such a demanding and temperamental instrument is at play here too.
Kevin not at all dear boy!!,I just think that there is a fair bit o knowledge out there and people are very willing to share it,thats all
Slan go foill
liam
Happy Mayday Holiday to ye all!I’m off to the Girvan by the Sea, Folk Festival in Ayrshire Sconnie Botland+bye for now ..
ps maybe we should attack all pipemakers on a rota say,and bring the waiting lists down! not a bad idea Jim!!
I’d be happy to expand on Kevin’s statement if it’s not obvious to you. Then again, if it’s not obvious to you perhaps you’re one of the people he’s talking about?
There are a lot of people who don’t know what they’re talking about who are more than happy to chime in with their self-proclaimed informed opinion.
A contributing factor, IMO, is related to the difficulty in learning to play the UPs successfully. If you’ve succeeded, or think you’re succeeding, your’re probably above average. Anyone knows people who are above average are usually jerks!
So, you get a forum of mostly successful pipers, ie people who play that damned thing on the knee, you have a higher probability of knee-jerk reactions.
Remember when you said to the flute forum…“you guys are beautiful.” And then came along a thread that had to be locked? It just doesn’t happen so much on the flute forum…those guys are generally nice people and know how to take a deep breath.
The whistle players…well, there’s a lot of good ones there, but they don’t tend to breath so deeply (wink-wink). You’re familiar with the expression “short, fat, and happy” (no, not you, silly!) Piper’s just don’t have a built in sense of well-being. They are, more often than not, ectomorphs. Critical. Quick to point out mistakes. Intolerable of disagreement. The pain of learning the instrument has left us feeling disgruntled. We’re LOOKING for revenge! Just about anything will work.
not a bad idea Jim!!