Just curious if anyone has had any experience with a practice set in kit form that you finish and put together. It’s offered by Davy Stephenson. Here’s the link:
http://www.bagpipeworks.com/other.htm
Still looking at what’s out there in terms of someone wanting to start on the pipes. Of course, I don’t know how this set would be in terms of loudness, since that is also an issue I’m thinking about.
thanks for any input,
Baen
Precut parts in a kit (w/ full instructions) sounds like a great way to save money on a practice set and learn to appreciate the work that goes into making them. However, Davy hasn’t been answering e-mail messages and the phone number on the website has been disconnected.
Have you seen the Penny Chanter kit?
I own the penny chanter kit, and fom personal experience and from experience of other pipers who have delt with David, I’d say steer well clear of this kit at this point in time. The quality of both construction, consistency and reeds have fluctuated greatly in the past few years.
Davy Stevenson’s work looks better but without having one in my hands to make a direct comparison, there’s no way to know that for sure. I think the fact that he’s un-reachable right now is a good indicator. BE CAREFUL!
Having been through the ringer myself over all this stuff for almost two years - I HONESTLY think the best route is still just save up the money and buy a real half-set from a amker who knows what he’s doing, can REALLY give you what you want, and is willing to stand behind his product in a fair, and prompt manner.
Best of luck!
I don’t know that I would get upset with current problems contacting Davy Stevenson. It could be something as simple as that he’s moved and the web page hasn’t been updated. For all the hype about e-commerce, the web page is usually the last thing anybody thinks to update.
However, having watched what goes into the making of sets, I would really caution you to think twice about this kit route. Note that they tell you it will take 4-5 DAYS to put this together - and that’s full time for someone who knows what they’re doing. If you have no experience as an instrument maker/tinkerer, and you unknowingly screw the kit up, who ya gonna call? Where’s the savings? Building kits is for hobbyists who want to spend their time building kits. There are no real financial savings or benefits going the kit route.
There is more than enough to occupy your mind in just learning how to play the these *&@#ing things. I would have to second the above suggestions that you go with a reputable maker, hopefully located close to you, and take full advantage of after-sales service on a good quality instrument. Leave the puttzing around with kit-building for someone who has nothing else to do with their time.
djm
Well put, djm and Brian!
…
Sorry to have ruffled feathers Kevin. I will not give names here as to who I’ve spoken with both to protect privacy, and also because there are many whos names I’ve simply forgotten. I will list some of the details experienced by myself and others in private email if anyone cares to iquire - as I have done in the past.
Thanks for your thoughts though. Those that I’ve heard from DID in fact find it helpful.
Brian~
…
derelict pipemaker of your acquaintance. 
that’s rich, he’ll like that.
Jeff
i’ll have to go along with kevin as my experience was similer. i ordered mine at tim brittens advice and while i waited the 2 months i built my bellows, bag and droans. the chanter arrived very playable, 2 good reeds and i played it long enough to know i was way hooked for life, then ordered a D in wood from bruce childress and a year later a B.
i don’t play it much any more, but everytime i do it is fine, sometimes a bridal adjustment. i’ve been thinking of selling it as now i have four chanters. four different reeds to contend with and make 
i would have to recomend the penny chanter, it was worth it to me to have dave make it and reed it, though i could build one now.
it is very in tune and has a good, loud tone and is almost indestructable.
[quote="Kevin Popejoy]
“Please don’t cite un-named sources to lend weight to un-specified problems. I’m not interested in “names” anyway, that’s not the point. Anything less is unfair to the maker and the readers of this forum.”
“I don’t particularly feel David needs me to jump to his defense. His contributions to piping speak volumes in his own defense. But the fact is, for good or ill, this forum is a primary research vehicle for many piping beginners.”
“I always found Daye’s service to be excellent. Being somewhat anal about such things, I saved all of our correspondence. Quite a large file. God bless the patient.”
Kevin Popejoy[/quote]
I’ll try to address your points here Kevin, as you still seem pretty bent over this.
David himself cites unspecified sources on his own webpage http://daye1.com/pc_intro.html which make claims as to the playability and intonation of his work. Simply put, these claims do NOT hold with regard to his current production units that are shipping. When I have spoken with David on the phone about the quality issues experienced on several of his sets, the issue was quickly glossed over. If you got one of the first and it was of decent workmanship, great. But know that things have changed since then.
As for the reputation of David as a pipemaker, that lies with the individual piper. I simply don’t care how many people swear by this maker or that maker’s work, sound, or reed skills. They have a lot to prove to every new customer - especially when the customer is planning on paying them hundreds to thousands of their own money for a reliable product.
I have always found David’s service to be slow, communication non-existant at times, and the quality of workmanship fair at best. Certainly not what a piper - new or old - would look for in a decent maker. In the past few years, speaking with tens of pipers from all over the world, the sentiment seems to be pretty much the same:
The penny-chanter is not the same as a regular chanter - and should never be labeled as such. It is a kit, an alternative to simply spending a couple hundred dollars more and buying a standard practice set. It should be noted, they do not play the same way, they do not sound the same way, nor do they have the same possibilities for upgrades as a standard set will have.
Having played many other sets over the years now, the penny-chanter seems to fill the niche bewteen the pakistani pipes with the plastic reeds (and the mouth blown uilleann practice chanter from Song of the Sea) and a regular set. I wish I would have known this when I ordered mine - but experience has been a good teacher in this case.
Hope that helps to clear the air.
No, it seems like you’re just making even more sweeping generalizations.
Dave gave me his very first prototype chanter seven years ago (I’ve known him since 1990), and that chanter saved me many times when my Britton reed was being fussy. I even used it once on a big fancy schmancy commercial gig (for Molson’s beer, for those of you are interested) when my Britton reed/chanter setup closed right up on me.
Dave has always been very generous with his time and reed making ability with me, and I was really happy for him when he was able to quit his university computer gig and go into pipemaking full time. I got another chanter from him 3 years ago and it worked even better than the prototype.
Besides which, I’ve always admired him for playing GHPs at Kent State (yes, that Kent State). Seems they needed a way to get the demonstrating students from one part of the campus to another quickly…Dave piped them around the campus and was an integrel part of the antiwar protest.
1 We were talking about the kit I think, and though Kevin puts up a great defense for buying one made by David Himself, he tries to gloss over what he admits is not necessarily an easy kit to assemble at a beginner or should we concede, non piper level, naming specifically the need for a drill press to locate and drill the tone holes properly. Uh, about 90% of making the instrument play in tune I might add.
2 I got one of the early white jobs and David built it Himself and the design of the thing is such that that plastic is going to look clunky no matter what, because you can’t actually cut details into it and sanding leaves a melty-looking surface etc. That and he mis-drilled back D so it has a divot out of the top of the hole, and a chatter mark where the bit skittered down the side. Well, it works great and the reed is great, and I had two more reeds made that I haven’t had to resort to so I cut them all up and used them in my other chanter because they had cracks that had been glued by David so I hadn’t any respect for them even if they did play well. I figured if I wrecked them it was no great loss, but they actually ended up playing well on a different staple, trimmed up for the Gallagher. I don’t know how you can grade workmanship on a thing like the penny chanter because it’s more like a cross between plastic plumbing and a tin whistle than a good UP stick.
3 I don’t know how successful his new delrin, lathe-turned outer sleeve looks or works, but that’s entirely different from the originals. I think the new version is a lot more attractive than the old ones and doesn’t scream “highschool shop project” at your audience in public.
4 He gave up on attempts to make wood versions, either by step-drilling or turning wood sleeves to go over the brass bore tubes. So in this sense hes isn’t really a “pipe maker” in any conventional, certainly traditional sense. He’s something of a theorist/experimenter who’s found a different path entirely.
5 I’m on his shite list from way way back when he didn’t like what I had to say about a few things on the rec.music.makers.bagpipe, but in spite of that he had till recently been very courteous and prompt in business dealings. I suspect he may no longer be taking email or anything else from me in the way of business or communication because of some prophetic claims I made on his little mailing list about a year ago concerning a stolen chanter, prophecies which were essentially fulfilled in full public view onstage this year’s Willie Week. This being said, apart from probably being very over-extended, I think his service has been for most well above the sort most pipe “makers” are capable of just for logistical reasons alone.
6 The PC is well above the Pakistani or plastic/pretend chanter setups. It’s a very playable, very reliable, very consistently reproduced instrument in its own right. While the tone may not stack up to any of the good wood chanters, it’s indestructable reed/build characteristics make it a dead-sure backup chanter that I have used several times, not because I wouldn’t have been able to coaxe my Gallagher back into perfect order given ten minutes or so, but because it was just easier to pull out the PC rather than take an awkward break in the gig or session and risk dorking up a good reed with hasty corrections made under very atypical conditions.
7 You live were the valley floor is 5600 feet above sealevel. Up on the benches or in the canyons add a thousand or more to that. Your humidity is from zero to 20% all summer, and 40% most of the spring and fall, and only a few months at best in the dead of winter does ambient humidity approach “normal” of 60-70% but then it’s cold so you play indoors in forced-air systems again at 0% humidity, at ungodly room temperatures like 76F which desert dwellers seem to think is comfortable. That may have something to do with reed/design problems in tuning and playability areas. Every set of pipes I have taken from sealevel up there has gone goofy in one way or another and has had to be seriously reset to play there well.
8 I built the Daye bag/bellows kit, though the bag was crap (vinyl) I’ve installed and prefer the bellows and valve/blowpipe system to the original on my Burke full set. (Even though I’ve bored out the Burke blowpipe.) So even if you don’t get a real bag and a real chanter out of a PC starter setup, you end up with a great bellows and supply system, a good backup chanter for the rest of your life, and a year or so’s jump on learning to play, because the PC’s playing characteristis are pretty standard UP, as if there really is such a thing.
9 As you say however, I’ve seen heard and played at least four others locally, and they were crap and the reeds were crap. But then I heard one of the same playing fine later after re-reeding, and I’ve even heard one with a plastic reed that sounded OK. So results with the PC are as variable as with any design.
10 The only negative characteristic I find about the Daye PC is that it seems very unforgiving about playing the chanter off the knee, so you can’t as easily fake from closed F# or G or E on the knee lower octave playing to swelling it up and slurring it up off the knee. The pitch changes a lot more than my Gallagher for example, which frankly doesn’t care much on the knee, off the knee or what fingering you use. But if you play clean, closed fingering all the time the Daye plays very true. I certainly wouldn’t put anyone off buying one or dealing with David.
Royce
Hi folks,
This will be my first post to the chiff-uilleann board. Hope this ends up in the right place.
Brian, I can’t argue about your personal experience with David or his chanters. I realize that different people are bound to have different experiences with the same makers. I have been known to be a pretty ugly customer when is comes to non-communication and poor product support myself. I am however rather surprised to see complaints associated with David Daye.
I have a name brand set and a hand full of other chanters. I’ve had a Penny Chanter that has been traveling with me as backup for three or four years now. When a kid showed up at my door without money but wanting a chanter now…now….now. We made one from David’s kit in less than two hours (think that’s all it was). Plays great! Cost us maybe $60 in parts and maybe another half hour for me to make a reed for him because he couldn’t afford to buy one. They are really straightforward to reed compared to many other chanters!
In my experience all the PCs I’ve handled have been robust, identical in behavior. In other words if you take one reed and plug it into different PCs you get identical intonation, behavior and sound. (I have tried it whenever owners felt comfortable with reed swapping.)
Brian’s comment about fluctuating consistency of reed making feels a little odd to me. Yes, because we are dealing with cane there will always be some variation and some small percentage of reeds will collapse. All makers have those issues!
But if you think about David Daye specifically, he seems to be more consistent than many. The man has briefly halted production completely when he ran into a bad batch of cane. That kind of practice comes at a tremendous price for a full time maker, but demonstrates he is making every effort to ensure quality and consistency. If you look at the hoops he jumps through to ensure climate stable reeds…..
Just haven’t seen that from many other makers.
Enough of that! I also concede that at least the white ones are the ugliest chanters I’ve ever seen and that I can certainly pick them up out of a “sound line-up” as a non-wood chanter.
Henry
Henry,
WELCOME to C&F !!
Always good to have more pipers around…welcome Henry.
Part of the explanation for the “Brian PC saga” is that Brian lives in one of the most hostile dry climates anywhere (Utah) where humidity can average in the teens much of the year. David had his challanges learning what worked and what didn’t. Some of Brian’s reeds had been altered, one was cracked, perhaps others scraped to find the magic spot. I think Brian tried humidifying his apartment finally, but other things were still not right. Remember, even Paddy Moloney doesn’t play his pipes much while touring Colorado, they give him fits (so I’ve heard) so he plays whistle a lot.
Brian plays pretty good, but some of us who had no experience with the PC (and some who had) encouraged him to move on to what the rest of us (mostly) were playing. I knew, from playing in Colo., NE Oregon (high and dry) and E Washington desert that he could find a combination that worked for him. There may be nothing wrong with his PC, it sounded okay to me, but he has such good potential and is always searching for his proper comparative place against better sounding pipes, that I believe his situation improved when he realized that particular PC/reed/humidity was too confusing for a beginner of only a couple years experience, and not much camparatives available.
I don’t know what he’s switched to exactly, but he sounds much improved on his outlook, and he should do whatever takes him forward. He could become a better piper fast if he figured out what was hindering him and holding him back. Sounds like he’s made the right move for his situation.
I’m just guessing, but there’s a possibility that what he thinks is wrong with his pipes is better than a lot of us put up with for years. 
I didn’t care for the appearance of my white chanter, either, but it was easy enough to fix with some black spray paint. I sometimes wonder why David doesn’t paint all of his penny chanters black… and why bother with the black plastic version?
If you try this, just be sure to rough up the surface with fine sandpaper before painting and be careful not to chip the paint afterwards. I painted mine a few months ago and it’s holding up really well so far. I figure that even if the paint does get chipped after a few years, I can always sand it down and repaint it.
Another “tweak” to improve the penny chanter appearance, subject to personal preferences, is to remove the lacquer from the brass portions of the exterior. The lacquer scratches easily and mine was starting to look a little beat up. I really like the look of unpolished brass anyway.
–Bob
I can’t help but notice that this thread has totally veered away from the original kit mentioned - the one from Davy Stevenson. Does this mean that no one has tried his kits, or is there a more sinister undercurrent lurking beneath the surface? 
djm