I consider myself a Craftsman. Others might disagree.
I would also say that the two are inextricably linked, I don’t think you can be an artist without being a craftsman and vice versa. Renoir was a craftsman in his own field, as much as Chippendale was an artist in his.
See wot i mean?
Hey Jerry…
she won’t get this message till 2011..if your calculations are correct…
I have to disagree, one can definitely be a craftsman, without being an artist - plenty of cabinet makers and furniture makers, and bench jewelers, and so on that make relatively simple, unimaginative, but well made items. Nothing wrong with that, these are honorable jobs, but there is no creativity there, either by choice or by virtue of the fact that they are working for someone else on a very common model of product.
With regards to whistles, it’s craftsmanship in 99.9% of cases: One must conform to the laws of acoustics and to a large part form.. Also, there is only so much one can do with regards to combining woods and metals for bodies and bands, and finally, the whistle, as we see it here on C&F in it’s “many” forms, isn’t used to express ideas, thoughts, emotions, or themes. The instrument can obviously be used to those ends in making music, but the process of making the instrument (as we know it today), falls within the realm of craftsmanship.
Well, that’s my perspective as an instrument maker, and someone who grew up with an artist/art educator as a grandfather. However, different folks have different definitions of art, so if it’s art to you, then that’s cool.
Loren
I guess I will better these odds.
Mariann prtpix
I’ve been at Colin Goldie’s place as a starting whistle-player. I’ve heard and seen many whistles there, I’ve seen Colin working on whistles. No doubt about it: it’s art requiring a lot of craftship. Mr Hoover, I’ve tried one of yours and I’ve got a lot of respect for you whistlemakers. Never stop being a crafted artist!
I think a craftsman does much more than make relatively simple things in an unimaginative and uncreative way. It is hopeless trying to distinguish between art and craft. For some, craft is essentially a pejorative term. For others, it is a word to be proud of. Imagination and creativity are required to find sound solutions to problems. Imagination and creativity are required to make something that is comely. Soundness and comeliness—David Pye writes about this. A good craftsman must produce both. I am not sure what an artist does. I guess whoever thinks he is an artist is one—I am happy with that definition. But there are most certainly people who define themselves as craftsmen, who decline to define themselves as artists, who are extremely imaginative and creative in addition to having an intimate relationship with the materials they handle.
Well… I can make a cabinet, but i’m no cabinet maker. I think that making whistles is one thing, making great whistles is another. So I guess I have to concede to agreeing with you. 
It hurts, but I think I can handle it. 
I have a silver copeland soprano D whistle.
It’s an artwork. It’s terribly hard to look at
it and deny that.
So some whistles are artworks, just as some bowls
are artworks (e.g. Cellinis).
Michael made jewelry and jewelry can be art;
the fipple plug is set like a stone. The conical
design (he also made organ pipes), the very
clean execution, the material create a strong aesthetic
affect that is intended. That’s sufficient for art,
in my book.
Craft is the stuff that enables you to make the thing
work. Art requires craft (at least good art does).
So there is a craft to writing, the writer’s craft.
But what you do with the craft is what makes you
an artist–using it to achieve creative aesthetic results.
If you succeed at that, you are an artist.
I have extraordinary respect for craftsmanship.
There is a great pleasure in it, the hard work and
the little things that nobody notices that cumulatively
make a difference to the result. I’m no artist,
but there is a kind of beauty that is attainable
through craftsmanship, it’s very satisfying even
if it isn’t very creative.
When I made jewelry I would at the end take out my file
and make all the seams in my pieces dissapear. This
gave me much pleasure. I do something like this
with the things I write, too. One calls writing like this
‘polished.’ Same pleasure, similar craftsmanship, but not
yet art.
a photo or two, please… 
If I was asked this question 3 months ago, I’d have said craft.
Since then I’ve been making a few myself and there is a definitly an art involved. Getting the desired tone by manipulating the fipple, window, blade, etc. is an art in itself.
Very much akin to making uilleann pipe chanter reeds.
My 2c.
Tommy
art or craft, i just wish there was a cool name like “luthier” for whistlesmiths…“whistlesmith” just doesn’t seem as cool to me
I’m not certain, but I think for me the word “expressive” works better to distinguish art from other endeavors. I think people in all sorts of fields can be extremely creative. Historians, scientists, crooks, diplomats, cooks, all sorts of people.
I will stand by my statement here and support my arguement by quoting from 'The Penguin English Dictionary;
Art (n) skill resulting from study and practice, perfection of execution; process of creating something beautiful (maybe not, have you SEEN some of the abominations in the Tate!!! ) painting, sculpture etc. Any occupation or process requiring great skill or intelligence; rules for the exercise of a craft, profession etc.
Artist (n) one who practices any creative art esp. painting; one whose work shows artistic skill
Craftsman (n) skilled manual worker; artist practicing one of the manual arts
Like I said above, Chippendale was a Craftsman par excellence in his chosen profession of furniture design and manufacture, his work shows incredible artistic skill. So yeah, an artist IS a craftsman and a Craftsman IS an artist. Just cuz a cabinet maker is putting together bits of wood to create a piece of furniture that someone else has designed, doesn’t mean to say that his artistic skill is any the less for it. He still has to be able to see the finished article and use his artistic interpretation to ensure that he can achieve or exceed the designers intentions.
ANYONE who makes something that another is going to look at is an artist in their own way. Top Chefs are artists in the creation of their culinary delights, cooking the food is a skill or a craft, putting it together on the plate is an art…
I could ramble on but I won’t 
Again, I’d disagree: When something seems very difficult, unattainable, or nearly so, by someone, then they tend to consider it “art” and yet, in many cases, it’s merely a matter of craft - knowing what to do and being able to do it by learning through repitition. There is little “creativity” involved - if you want this type of sound, you do X, if you want that type of sound, you do Y.
Whistle making/voicing is like this - it’s difficult and mysterious until you either learn through trial, error, or are taught, and then it’s becomes clear it is a craft, not an art.
Jim, is it your assertion that a Silver Copeland is more a work of art than a Brass Copeland?
I wonder if Michael would say he feels his whistles are the product of Art or Craft? I suspect he’d say craft, but I can’t be certain.
Loren
One can find many different definitions by looking through many different dictionaries. Art, is not, by it’s nature, well defined in a sentance. Those who study art for any length of time will disagree with most of the one line definitions.
Like I said above, Chippendale was a Craftsman > par excellence > in his chosen profession of furniture design and manufacture, his work shows incredible artistic skill. So yeah, an artist IS a craftsman and a Craftsman IS an artist. Just cuz a cabinet maker is putting together bits of wood to create a piece of furniture that someone else has designed, doesn’t mean to say that his artistic skill is any the less for it. He still has to be able to see the finished article and use his artistic interpretation to ensure that he can achieve or exceed the designers intentions.
Ahh, see that last bit is where your argument really falls down because there is no room for the craftsman to use his artistic interpretation in executing someone else’s design - the worker’s who made Chippendale furniture would NOT be allowed to deviate from the design Chippendale had drawn up. These were highly skilled craftsman that would have produced the furniture, but they didn’t design it, and they had to stick to the blue-prints no artistic interpretation required or allowed.
The 5 star Chef who comes up with creative, innovative and delicious new recipies may be an artist, but is the line cook who has to make that same dish, exactly the same way 50 times a night an artist? No, he’s just a highly skilled craftsman working the production line.
The Guggenheim Museum building in New York is a work of art, but were the craftsman who poured the concrete, artists? Clearly the answer to that is no.
I have the highest regard for master craftsmen/women, some are artists as well, however many are not. There really is a difference, and most skilled craftspeople would tell you so.
Loren
I think that this comment is where YOUR arguement fall down because clearly there is an art to mixing and pouring concrete so it remains in one piece for a couple of decades just as there is an art to ensuring that the best piece of wood is used in the creation of a piece of furniture, selection of the right grain, the best colour, nicest texture and so on. So a craftsman is STILL an artist and will remain so. Gordon Ramsey is still a cook as well as being an artist and even though he might not do much of the actual cooking in his restaurants these days, he used to and that is why he is where he is today.
Perhaps this debate is entering the realms of semantics rather than true definition
Maybe Loren hit on it a bit there where he said “room for artistic interpretation”.
Maybe the creative part is the art..the act of designing a whistle. It’s the building them day in and day out that’s a craft.
It’s building essentially the same thing, day in and day out that is the craft. Art, by it’s nature, must involve a large measure of creativity, or it is simply craft. It is not art to reproduce, over and over, what has already been conceived and done before.
Loren
I’m sure the concrete worker’s Union will be glad to hear you say that!
Loren
I was agreeing with you
When you design your first whistle, that’s art..good or bad.
When you replicate that same whistle a hundred times, over and over, it becomes paint by numbers (though more difficult, to be sure)