Which Low D Whistle with smaller holes (than Howard) ?

Hello everyone,
it has been a long time, and I’m glad you are out and about as lively as ever, cheers to you all :pint:

I would like to start playing Low Whistles now and look for a bit of information on Low Ds for smaller hands.
(Have searched the Forum and Internet thoroughly in order to narrow my question down).

Got a lovely older (15 years or more?) Howard Low D, diameter of 2nd and 5th hole ca. 12,5 mm. This is - for the present state - way too big for my fingers as a starter instrument.

So I have my eyes on the following Low Ds in order to get into fluent playing while enjoying the way:

  • MK Kelpie
  • Dixon TB003D: tapered bore, one piece, not tunable
    (- and just out of interest: MK Pro - has it got bigger holes than the MK Kelpie?)

Parameters - what I am looking for:

  • smaller 2nd and 5th hole: max. 11,5 mm (better 11 mm)
  • rich sound with a (good) bit of breathyness

Would you be my fingers & ears and give me your observations?
That would be much appreciated, for I have no way of getting to try and compare any instruments right now.

Thanks a lot
and all the best,
Ellen

I have both the Dixon the MK (though slightly different models) and they’re both among the most ergonomic Low Ds. The Dixon is perhaps the most ergonomic Low D, but in quality of timbre, and volume, and tuning, the MK is IMHO clearly superior to the Dixon.

If you want all the details, here’s a review I posted in another thread a while back (the review of the Kerry Optima while it was on its USA tour)

Susato keyless with angled neck
Dixon all-plastic two-piece conical bore
Reyburn alloy body/maple head
Reyburn alloy body/polypenco head
Burke Pro Viper alloy
Kerry Optima alloy with red plastic top
MK tunable (like the MK pro but made before that designation was used)

Tuning:
All of these whistles have an accurate scale and can do the oxx ooo crossfingered C natural well. This Burke, and some other Burkes I’ve owned, have a curious tuning anomaly, B being a tad flat in the low octave but spot-on in the 2nd octave.

Octaves, flattest 2nd octave > sharpest 2nd octave:
Dixon > Reyburns/Burke/Susato > MK > Optima
With the Dixon the low octave must be rather underblown. The Reyburns, Burke, and Susato have the 2nd octave in the (for me) most natural place. With the MK you must strongly blow the low register and be careful not to overblow the 2nd octave but with practice it’s easy to keep the octaves in line. This Optima has the sharpest 2nd octave of any of the Low D’s I have to hand. In fact it’s quite difficult to blow the low octave strong enough and blow the 2nd octave softly enough to keep the registers in tune; I have to blow the low notes right to the verge of them beginning to flutter/break (their tone becoming less than optimal) and blow the 2nd octave right at the verge of falling to keep the octaves in line.

Volume:
Without being able to measure volume, it’s more of an impression than a scientific reality. My overall impression, playing a tune that mostly dwells in the low range, is:
Loudest > Softest
Maplehead Reyburn > MK > Burke/Susato > Optima/Polyhead Reyburn > Dixon

Bottom D strength: There’s a big gap, with Susato, Burke, and the Reyburns having very powerful Bottom D’s, and the MK, Optima, and Dixon having weaker ones.

Evenness in strength in the Bottom D/Low E/Low F# range:
This is something I really become aware of when playing tunes that dwell down there. You go to play E and it breaks because it can’t take the same pushing its neighbors can.
The MK, Optima, and both Reyburns are remarkably even and you can play down there with confidence. The Dixon, Burke, and Susato have E’s which are considerably weaker than their neighbors.

Air efficiency:
A little difference, a couple seconds in how long you can sustain a note, makes a huge difference in how you phrase tunes. I prize an efficient instrument on which long phrases can be played, and you can just play without having to put in frequent gaps.
Most efficient > least efficient (measured by how long I can sustain G in the 2nd octave):
MK > Susato/Dixon > Burke/Optima/Maplehead Reyburn > Polyhead Reyburn

Timbre:
This is of course entirely subjective. The Susato and Dixon have pure colourless timbres. The Maplehead Reyburn is pure but adds an NAF-like resonance. The Burke is pure but adds a bit of dirt/gravel. The polyhead Reyburn has a unique foggy NAF-like presence. The Optima and MK have the most gravel/dirt. The MK combines this dirtiness/graveliness with a strong ‘core’ in a way that sets it apart from the others.

Comfort/ergonomics:
As I play Low Ds more and more I’m realizing that upperhand comfort, for me, seems to be hugely impacted by fairly small differences in tube fatness, hole spacing, and hole size.

The Dixon with its close, small holes and skinny tube is by far the most comfortable for me to play. The Susato and MK are next, with narrower-than-average tubes and smaller-than-average holes. A fat tube and far-flung big holes make my upper hand less comfortable.

Tube OD:
Susato .89 > Dixon (at C# hole) .91 > MK .96 > Reyburns/Optima/Burke .985

Upperhand finger spread/hole size measured from edge to edge, smallest > largest:
Dixon 3.12 > polyhead Reyburn 3.24 > Susato 3.28 > MK/Optima 3.31 > Burke 3.33 > maplehead Reyburn 3.46

(The differences might seem small, but the difference in upperhand comfort for me between the MK and the maplehead Reyburn is huge.)

Lowerhand finger spread/hole size measured from edge to edge, smallest > largest:
Susato 3.16 > Dixon 3.18 > Optima 3.24 > maplehead Reyburn 3.25 > MK 3.26 > Burke 3.36 > polyhead Reyburn 3.4

Odd, isn’t it, how some whistles have among the biggest spread in one hand and the narrowest in the other. Would be nice to have the upperhand spread of the polyhead Reyburn and the lowerhand spread of the Optima. (The Susato’s placement is obviously not optimal tonewise.)

I started with a howard when I was young and wayyyy to big for my fingers, and unf my hands haven’t grown much since then. I think phill Hardys whistles of kerry whistles are best for short hands and tiny fingers. And actually after owning and playing exclusively an Overton low D I couldn’t play my Chieftain anymore because my hands got used to playing with a further stretch. Lol if your interested I’m selling the V4

Thank you both :slight_smile:

Pancelticpiper, I had been hoping for your reply (knew your earlier posts & expertise).
Would you - only if you have got a moment - measure the diameter of those 2nd and 5th holes in the MK and Dixon for me?


Had noticed that :wink: , but the V4 is not on my radar as it has not come up for easy fingering in my research (nor for the opposite, admittedly). Reckon, the breathing requirements might be demanding for a beginner?

Thanks so far.

Dixon: Hole 2 .329 Hole 5 .387

MK: Hole 2 .349 Hole 5 .413

Playing the two just now, they’re vastly different. The MK feels like it has twice the volume of the Dixon in the low octave. The Low E of the MK is particularly strong. The MK has a big beefy gravelly voice compared to the soft hollow tone of the Dixon.

Hi Ellen

I would chose the Dixon TB012D over the TB003D, the difference in price is not that great and it is handier to have a tunable whistle.

Of my collection of low D whistles the one with the smallest tone holes is a Bleazey blackwood low D - they are smaller than the tone holes in a high D :open_mouth:

David

Ah, thank you, that helps.
So the Low Ds compare as follows:

  • MK Kelpie: 2nd hole 0,349 in (0,89 cm); 5th hole 0,413 in (1,05 cm)

  • Dixon TB012D: 2nd hole 0,329 in (0,84 cm); 5th hole 0,387 in (0,98 cm)

  • Howard: 2nd hole 0,492 in (1,25 cm); 5th hole 0,492 in (1,25 cm)

Thanks also for the description of the sound impression. The picture is getting clearer for me … :slight_smile:

You are right there.

Measurements :smiley: ? Everything is relative, you know. (Well, even measurements, if we think it through …)

Greetings,
Ellen

That got me to take a look at my various whistles and I saw that the biggest holes on my Burke High D (Session Bore) are the same size as the biggest holes on the Dixon Low D, save for the Dixon’s slightly larger Hole 5.

What amazes me is how the MK can have smaller holes than most alloy cylindrical Low D’s, yet be among the loudest, and also the most air-efficient. There’s very little going to waste there.

There are common misconceptions about hole size in low whistles which persist via marketing blurbs through to the dogma held on to by their players. Big holes are less necessary for the higher notes to speak on low whistles than they are on high whistles. The holes do have to be large enough and finished well enough for the highest notes to sound quickly. However, large holes still afford greater range for some ornamentation techniques. Whistle design is a dance of many variables.

Feadoggie

No one has mentioned the Walt Sweet Onyx. Conical bored. Some will not like the sound, but that is a taste issue. Good solid sound and intonation throughout the range, and much smaller holes than any mentioned. Definitely worth a try.

Hi, just wanna add that I also recommend the Walt Sweet Onyx. I remember when I’ve been trying a few low whistles and really struggled with all of them except the Onyx. The holes are smaller and offset which makes the reach natural and comfortable. And the sound is soft and clear.

Another cheer for the Onyx. I mostly play high whistles but the Onyx is played for its’ mellow tone.

Feadoggie is correct.
I enjoy my Howard low D and the holes realy have some good pop/response almost like a calliope or Susatoe.
Of course being a young fellow (71) and never smoked I have plenty of air for all whistles. My hands are full of dupuytren’s contracture and it did take some perseverance, practice, pipers grip in front of a mirror. Tried small hole whistles and now prefer large holes without a bevel. It seems the bevel makes the hole larger at the top and takes more pressure/flesh to seal it. Holes without a bevel are more easy to find.

I’d like to add another voice to the hitherto unsung chorus for the Onyx Low D by Walt Sweet.

I’ve tried about a dozen Low D’s. I have to say that the Onyx has the most flute-like 1st octave of all. It’s absolutely lovely: rich, full, and sweet. It purrs. Plus, as stated above, the holes are in an “easy-reach” pattern.

Walt, and his father Ralph, are long-time instrument makers. My personal speculation is that the Onyx really is a distillation of many decades of instrument-making and instrument-playing expertise.

Yes, it’s true, the hole pattern makes some compromises on a few notes. And, you’ll need to blow lots of air to make it sing. But overall, it’s a beautiful sound !

One day I’ll have to sell-off some others, but I’m keeping my Onyx !

trill

Just a short update:

I got me an MK Kelpie for now, and am happy to be indeed able to cover all the holes with piper’s grip, a good starting point for me.
If only I could play better yet to bring the instrument’s full capacity to life, because it really has got spirit :wink: a fine whistle.

By now I find it even a bit easier to hold and play the big holed Howard Low D. I’m glad about that, a completely different beautiful sound, and I love the way I can ‘mould’ the individual tones on those big holes.

My left hand has still a bit of a hard time holding the weight of a Low D, and both hands learn how to stretch now.

Be it as it may, I absolutely wouldn’t mind trying Walt Sweet’s Onyx Low D, a Goldie, Kerry, Chieftain, Reyburn, Burke … you name it … which leads me to the other thread: Low-D-mania … :smiley: See you there

Greetings,
Ellen