Suppose you could only get one F natural key?
Which is more useful, the short or the long?
For Irish music, I’d say the long. Tunes like Julia Delaney’s need the ability to move smoothly between F-natural and D, and you can’t do that as easily with a short-F key.
However, if you’re going to play any other kind of music, you’re going to find incidents where you need the ability to move smoothly between A-flat and F, and you can’t do that at all with the long-F key—so for jazz, classical, or almost anything else except Irish, I’d say the short-F is pretty much mandatory.
I’ve read that Nicholson didn’t like the long-F key and felt that anything you can do with a long-F, with practice you should be able to do with a short-F, for whatever that’s worth.
–James
Short
Kinda like this post 
why short? 
For what it’s worth, I use both F keys about equally. Certain licks just lend themselves to one or the other, and it’s great to have options. If I had to do without one or the other, I suppose the long F could be dropped; seems like there are things you can do with the short F that wouldn’t be as slick with the long one. I’m thinking now of the third part of the Flogging Reel as an example. I get the F natural lick by actuating the short F at the same time as I lay down the rest of my RH fingers. Feels very positive, very rhythmical. You can do it by holding down the long F, but it loses that positive feel, for me.
That being said, I’d hate to be without the long F when ascending from D to F without first stopping at E, especially at reel tempo. An example of this occurs in the second part of the Broken Pledge, though I confess that I use both F keys in the course of playing the fiddly bit there.
Rob
Short post, short key.
The short F natural key makes playing the note in question (is that an F natural?) fairly natural in the flow of a tune. F natural via the short key is just like an E with the remaining free finger holding down the key beside it. The long key doesn’t, to me anyway, really seem to be just as well integrated into the whole carry on. I know that going from D to F natural is hard to do with a short key. On these occasions then half covering the relevant hole usually seems OK.
This is only a fairly poorly put point from me but it’s all I know on the matter.
(PS - I know making the short F natural keys is trickier for flute makers. maybe that’s another reason for ordering them. I’ve just ordered a keyless flute.)
Oíche Mhaith,
Michael.
My vote goes for the long. The short is awkward, IMO, and uses fingers needed for other keys. The long uses the pinky of the left hand, which is used only for Ab/G#, and nothing else. I’d say the occasions to go from either of those notes to F-natural is rare. You are not likely to play in flatted keys where an Ab is needed, and if your G is sharp, your F will be as well, except in the case of an accidental.
I can’t think of how else the finger pushing down a short F natural key could be better employed at that precise time. Once the flute has been distanced from the hands then there could be plenty of jobs for it. I use a “piper’s grip” with my left hand while playing a flute. That might well render my opinions on matters relating to flute keys entirely invalid. (I’d still vote short, though).
I use the short F more than the long, although the fact that the long F was MIA on my flute until recently might have had something to do with that.
Recently, however, I’ve subjected myself to a rigorous Long F Utilization program and am finding the little devil kind of handy – except when I hit it instead of my intended target, the G sharp.
But if I had to choose one today, it’d still be the short F.
Which Fnat key? You think you have troubles?
Try a Boehm, which gives a player three Bb keys.
Well, it does say Flute Forum…
And, the dark side goes darker!
Consensus emerging??? Historically, the short F developed before the long one - that just about says it all. Nicholson did think the long one was unnecessary, but few of us are as good as he apparently was! I use both, and agree with posts here about tunes in D minor like Julia Delaney’s, Mother’s Delight, Broken Pledge, all of which I love playing on my 8-keys, low Cs and all. I also routinely vent an F key for F# about 70% of the time, and again use both/either key depending on the run-in and the greatest facility. I wouldn’t want to be without either, but if I had to jettison one, I’d opt to keep the short one…under protest.
Well put, Jem. In further musing on the long F, one use of it that occasionally comes up in my own playing is to hold it down in anticipation of an F natural a couple of notes later, kind of like the old preselector gearbox on pre-war motorcars. Only works in certain circumstances, but I find it quite useful in its place.
Rob
This question again??
I use both and suggest you get both along with an extra long and a portly short and an extremely long and semi-medium long and a somewhat short.
That should take care of most contingencies.
You can have more added later as needed such as the cadet and the husky.
Short.
Uilleann chanters, FWIW, have only the short key. Silly long F.
People who like the long F are just compensating for . . . 
Stuart
Such an accusation!
Actually not all Boehm-system flutes have all three. Sometimes the little B-flat shake touch is omitted so that other keys may be added, like a G trill or a B to C trill, or both.
Customized Boehm-system flutes aren’t hard to come by; my instructor’s flute in college had another touch for L4 beside the A-flat spatula which was for a “true” (i.e. not cross-fingered) F-sharp.
–James
OK, for the first, and last, time on this board, I will let it be known that all of my Boehm flutes are open G#(talk about an odd duck!). BTW, the original Boehm flute was in open G#.
To say that the Boehm F# is crossfingered is technically correct, and I will add, that perhaps a majority of Irish flute players could have no idea how fortunate they are not to have an R3 F#.
True, also, the R1 Bb touch could have a substitute touch, but perhaps not the norm.
Oh, yeah, apparently none of this has anything to do with the Fnat question, sorry to be off topic, here.
That’s fine. I very much appreciate these posts.
Hammy H. retrofits keys, as you know. His 4-key
flute is considerably cheaper than his 6-key,
which led to the question: which 4 keys would
I want? I want a C natural cause I find it helpful
and use it a lot, a G sharp, an Eb and
an F natural. But I can’t have both F naturals
on this plan, so…
Not that I’m necessarily going to do this.
Man are we Yanks getting walloped on the
Euro! But I seem to have a need to connive
about getting this flute or that improvement…
It seems to me both positions are very well
argued in this thread, in fact. Impressive.
I need to go over these
in detail. Thanks.
Yes, you can have both Fnats, along with a G# and an Eb, for a total of four keys.
The real Cnat you are looking for is OXO XXO, for both the first and second registers. Yeah, yeah, OXX OOO is the usual fingering given for Cnat, and it seems to give the easiest Cnat, but it has that crossfingered sound, no matter what one does, yet OXO XXO can in most Irish flutes produce a sound otherwise unlike a crossfingered note.
This is your lucky day!
My vote would always be long F… but, if you’re going to play tunes in F, you’ll also want a Bflat key. They kind of go together…
So, you could either buy a 5-key flute, with one of the F’s (take your pick) - or a 3 key and save yourself the extra cost… … but accept that tunes in F are out of your range.
Or just go the whole hog and buy a 6-key - to stop you coming back for more!