Yes a bore would be helpful it would let the column of air generate a note and connect up wi the finger holes 
Uilliam
Oh Sweet Lord in a stuka, I knew i had that one comingā¦
Thanks Uilliam.
+ 
= Your chanter
Uilliam
OWW>>Sweet God! The Sacred heart of Dubya!!! My poor brain!!!
As for supplying a rush already in situ just in case the buyer needs one cāmon folks thats is just plain daft,..(so if ye donāt fancy one in it take it out and then listen to it never mind about years down the road try it now) ? I am sure it will sound a bit different.
Exactly. On purpose or not it is odd in a new chanter. Iād take this up with the builder.
As rushes lower the pitch, the Willie Rowsome chanter probably really did need the rush to play in pitch as it was likely built to play somewhere around A=452.
Very true, Pitch standard was by no means set in stone in Willieās day, as it did for most of history.
The real reason that we care about getting a chanter to spot on A 440 is that we have to play with other musicians who canāt tune to us, (like those damned accordions ) and be to heard on stage. Otherwise we might still be playing flat sets.
Youāve never seen a flat piper and an accordeon player play together?
Youāve never seen a flat piper and an accordeon player play together?
How flat was the piper?? Two dimensional?? 
Oddly enough, most box players are unwilling to retuning for a sinlge session.
āceadachā
Very true, Pitch standard was by no means set in stone in Willieās day, as it did for most of history.
The real reason that we care about getting a chanter to spot on A 440 is that we have to play with other musicians who canāt tune to us, (like those damned accordions >
OK then.. why did ye say that ye ran into an old chanter that needed to be rushed if ye already believed in the 1st of the above quoted statements? 
and as for the 2nd that is only true if relevant.
For instance the Chieftans play sharp o 440 and they have no trouble being heard on stage,nor tuning to their preferred pitch.
Also I am not aware of anyone having to play with anyone else.Ye donāt have to do anything.
As a matter of interest how many of the great Ceilidhe Bands had the pipes and an accordion player together?
also ye wrote**ā¦āWhat the problem with rushing??? Did I misread something?ā** ā¦andā¦
āThis would seem a deliberate preference on the part of the builder.ā
then**.."Exactly. On purpose or not it is odd in a new chanter. Iād take this up with the builder. "**
ā¦confusing or what???One minute ye are implyig that it is an ok thing(I think cos I am not really sure what ye are saying)the next minute its not an ok thingā¦
SlƔn Agat
Uilliam
Forgive me, I didnāt think my statements would have to hold up to magisterial level scrutiny, I thought we were having a conversation, not a trial. Relax already.
Also I am not aware of anyone having to play with anyone else. Ye donāt have to do anything.
I do play with others. If you donāt, then you donāt have to worry about being in tune with other musicians. Many other pipers do and have, including the pipers in the great old ceili bands. They all came to their own solutions to pitch. It is reasonable to assume that we have to agree on one pitch level, A=440 is as convinient as any.
So far as I can tell, Paddy Maloney plays concert D sets not flat sets on stage. I didnāt say anything about them not being able to heard, or having trouble tuning. Nowadays, you can mike just about anything to audible levels. The concert pitch set evolved for great volume, before the days of amplification.
Rushing could be a deliberate choice of a given builder. I did say it was a good choice. If I received a brand new chanter that needed to be rushed to work from the makerā¦ without previous knowledge of it, you can be damned sure Iād take it up with the maker. IS that clear enough???
A rush can:-
Pitch your chanter
Tune your chanter
Tone your chanter
It is not readily visible.
It is not a permanent alteration to your chanter or reed.
As Kurt Cobain said ā Mmmmm the rushā
Thereā¦
(sorry Kurt)
It is not a permanent alteration to your chanter or reed.
Fair point Alan, but I still think it odd that a maker would give you a newly made chanter with the rush in place. Is Froment using this as a device to fine tune tuning, tone and pitch. Can this not be done with an alternate bore design?
For instance the Chieftans play sharp o 440
Yip, 447 actually
Youāve never seen a flat piper and an accordeon player play together?
Theyāll chance their arm with concertina players though >
Tommy
I suppose a lot has to do with YOUR perspective of the whole thingā¦
If Fromentās chanters are based on a design that is sharp -or- already has a need for a rush -or- has certain tuning issues (yes Uilliam, bad design) It appears (to me) at some point in his pipemaking career, rather than re-design the bore, Froment decided to make a rush standard.
Itās there. So be it. Thatās what he is offeringā¦ get over it. Does it detract from the quality and workmanship of this pipes? Judging from his wait listā¦ No.
A student of mine has a new half set that came with a rushed, or more correctly: wired, chanter.
Some maintain Leo Rowsome chanters were designed to be rushed down. I donāt know, they certain seem to want to. Call me old fashioned but I would not at all at all like paying a big load of money only to get a chanter with a guitar string superglued to itās insides.
On the other hand I have played with Josephine Marsh sticking to the C row on her B/C box or had Jackie Daly bringing in a box to play in C (or play in C on a concertina that happened to be on the table). The point of the comment being ofcourse playing a flat set has nothing to do with the A=440 issue
I suppose a lot has to do with YOUR perspective of the whole thingā¦
If Fromentās chanters are based on a design that is sharp -or- already has a need for a rush -or- has certain tuning issues (yes Uilliam, bad design) It appears (to me) at some point in his pipemaking career, rather than re-design the bore, Froment decided to make a rush standard.
Itās there. So be it. Thatās what he is offeringā¦ get over it. Does it detract from the quality and workmanship of this pipes? Judging from his wait listā¦ No.
Tony,
Youāve made a very fair and reasonable point. When we get to this level of pipe making skills, it is down to personal taste.
You may be right in saying that at some point Alain may have said, āfeck it. Iām close enough, an auld rush will do the trickā But some how I donāt think thats the case. Or maybe I donāt want to believe thats the case.
I think the rush option is a handy quick fix to a tuning issue but I donāt believe that it should come as a standard fixture to a brand new chanter. Itās like buying a new car and getting a free can of WD40 for when the engine wonāt start.
What happens when the chanter goes sharper. Another rush? Your bottom D will go to hell then. Thats no good.
Alain is a fine craftsman, engineer and instrument maker. His flat sets are superb and his concert drones and regulators are excellent too, in my opinion. I just donāt like his D chanters and the rush deal is part of that.
I suppose I just have to get over that. Ah, no I donāt, I just donāt want oneā¦
Mind you, take a look out there and see the amount of pipers with Alains D set with other makers chanters, theres a good few in Ireland.
Tommy
Chad ye are not as clear as ye seem to think ā¦
It was yersel that DID say āThe real reason that we care about getting a chanter to spot on A 440 is that we have to play with other musicians who canāt tune to us, (like those damned accordions ) and be to heard on stage. Otherwise we might still be playing flat setsāā¦
and what is the comment about Paddy playing concert sets and not flat ones got to do wi anything??
āRushing could be a deliberate choice of a given builder. I did say it was a good choice.ā What is that supposed to mean??
āincluding the pipers in the great old ceili bandsā OK, elaborate, how many pipers played with accordions was my point .
āI do play with others.ā then ye should know that it is possible for them to tune to your pipes if they havenāt got a fixed pitch instrument which was my point about mentioning the Chieftains.
Ye seem to be taking this awefully personally but ye should remember that by posting to this board in the first place then ye are inviting comment back good bad or indifferent,as for this being a trial ,I think not.If I was having a conversation wi ye then I would be saying exactly the same to your face .. trouble is we canāt see each other whilst typing awa so the facial expressions canāt help wi the dialogue.So to help ye out a wee bit here is mine 
And please donāt take any of this to heart,how feckin important is it anyway..?
SlƔn Go Foill
Uilliam
PS..Tony..I didnae actually
write āBad Designā
in the world of litigation and sensitive souls then precise terminology is important..I wrote "Once in a while maybe OKā¦ but as a basic design "
how ye interpret that is entirely your own business.Oh and the sky is blueā¦ 
Wood unlike delrin (bronce or ātrumpet goldā) is not a homogenic material but has an individual grain (like your fingerprints). Consequently, even when the same reamer has been used, there are (normally) no two chanters by the same maker who perform exactly the same. Many makers use āmother reedsā : When the chanter performs exactly the same (without even the slightest reed-adjustment), it is only then that the maker knows that the chanterĀ“s new copy is āsucsessfulā. The āexactly-same-performanceā (talking of very slight differences, mind you) can best be achieved by a thin wire rush that is sanded at particular parts. It is temporal and can be taken out again (of a new and still changing chanter). Permanent changes to the bore (especially to new and still in the next months shrinking) chanters are not so advisable. Apart from that wood keeps changing (with years less though) all the time.
Cheers,
Hans
Hello !
I think itās much ado for nothing , because , IMHO , the main point is that Alain chanters be good , rush or no rushā¦
Because many of you seems to know about pipemaking , perhaps would it be better to tell some pipemakers how to make good chanters than to wonder why one of the best pipemaker use a wire in his chanters .
I like to heard the C Froment chanter with a wire from David Power and the Bb and B Froment chanters also with wire from Mick OāBrienā¦ donāt you ?
Iām ok to buy any chanter from Alain if the owner donāt want anymore because there is a rush in it ā¦
Thatās right Uilliam, you didnāt say it. I did.
Did you make an implication? Thatās not so important.
In the world of piping (at some level) isnāt it understood that all pipes are a bad design? Isnāt that is why so many makers are TRYING to perfect them. They each start with someone elses work and have their own path to alter bores, chanter lengths, tonehole locations and sizes.
There is one camp who says: A hole is a hole. It must be round and the edges must be straight.
There is another camp who deliberately make oval shaped toneholes with odd angled undercuts.
That should indicate pipes arenāt perfected and there isnāt one path to follow.
Is the wire to cure bore/design issue a reeding issue?
Do Froment owners automatically make their own reeds or go out and get someone else to make reeds for them?
If so, are they able to remove the wire with someone elses reeds?
Perhaps it is nothing, but you have to admit that at the going rate (and turn around time) for this makerās work, there will be questions regarding a rush in the chanter that is considered standard.
It is only fair that these questions are brought up and discussed, regardless of the ideaology behind them.
It is only fair that these questions are brought up and discussed, regardless of the ideaology behind them.
I know that , Joseph ; no problem !