Tuning in B

Hello all,

I have a basic question but am sure many of you know the answer so here goes. I have a B half-set and am wondering what the actual B scale along with deal Hz might be. I’d also like the idea drone Hz value. I know, I know the chanter and drones should be in tun with each other, but I’m looking for a good baseline to work with.

I find that when I start tuning the drones after awhile I can no longer tell what’s in tune and what isn’t. So B(D) and F#(A) will sound in tune, but C# and F (E and F#) will sound off.

Thanks!

Musical scale

The frequencies 440Hz and 880Hz both correspond to the musical note A, but one octave apart. The next higher A in the musical scale would have the frequency 1760Hz, twice 880Hz. In the western musical scale, there are 12 notes in every octave. These notes are evenly distributed (geometrically), so the next note above A, which is B flat, has frequency 440 ´ b where b is the twelfth root of two, or approximately 1.0595. The next note above B flat, which is B, has frequency 440 ´ b 2.

A 440
B flat 466
B 494
C 523
C sharp 554
D 587
D sharp 622
E 659
F 698
F sharp 740
G 784
A flat 831
A 880
Above is a table of the complete musical scale between middle A and A-880. Each frequency is b times the frequency above it. .

The psychoacoustic properties of the musical scale are fascinating. The musical scale is based on our perception of frequency, and harmonic relationships between frequencies. The choice of 12 evenly spaced notes is based on the so-called circle of fifths.

Frequencies that are harmonically related tend to sound good together. In the following applet, you can combine any set of frequencies in the scale.


The blue waveform is the sound you hear, which is a combination of the other (pure tone) waveforms. Try combining A, C sharp, and E. If you have a musical ear, you will recognize this as a major triad. What is special about this frequency combination? Notice that the following frequencies all correspond to the note A:

440,
440 ´ 2 = 880,
880 ´ 2 = 1760,
1760 ´ 2 = 3520.
What about 440 ´ 3 = 1320? Notice that 1320/2 = 660, which is almost exactly the E in the scale at the left. Thus, 440 ´ 3 is the note E, one octave above the E immediately above A-440. E and A are harmonically related, and to most people, they sound good together. It is because

440 ´ 3 » 659 ´ 2For somewhat more arcane reasons, the interval between A and E, which is a frequency rise of 3/2, is called a fifth. The note 3/2 above E has frequency 988, which is an octave above B-494. Another 3/2 above that is approximately F sharp (740 Hz). Continuing in this fashion, multiplying frequencies by 3/2, and then possibly dividing by two, you can approximately trace the twelve notes of the scale. This progression is called the circle of fifths. The notion of key in music and a scale are based on this circle of fifths.

Where does the C sharp come from in the major triad? Notice that

440 ´ 5 » 554 ´ 4.
Among all the harmonic relationships in the scale, A, C sharp, and E have among the simplest. This possibly accounts for the predominance of the major triad in western music.

A major triad can be written as a sum of sinusoids

s(t) = sin(440´ 2p t) + sin(554 ´ 2p t) + sin(659´ 2p t).
The human ear hears frequencies. Musical sounds such as chords can be characterized as sums of pure tones. Of course, truly musical sounds are much more complex. For one thing, pure tones are not particularly appealing sounds. Musical instruments produce notes that are more complex than pure tones. The characteristic sound of an instrument is its timbre, and as we shall, some aspects of timbre can also be characterized as sums of sinusoids.

There that should clear up any little questions :boggle:
I personally am happy if my B set is in tune with itself :astonished:
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

Patrick;

Why do you think the numbers will help you? I am unclear on what you are trying to do.

Firstly, a “B” chanter is often happiest playing somewhere that isn’t exactly modern B. It’s best to let it play where it’s most content. So, they best approach to tuning is to try and deduce approximately where the chanter wants to play, and tune one drone (usually the tenor) to get you in the ball park.

You were right when you said you should tune against the drone, not a meter. If the C# and E sound off, maybe they are! Those are the most notoriously out-of-tune notes on the chanter.

'liam’s article is interesting :boggle: but please ignore the top scale, which refers to “even temperament” which is what you don’t want to use. For the same reason it’s not a good idea to rely on a tuner unless you know how many “cents” the notes of the scale should deviate from equal temperament. I believe that last topic has been discussed on this list before:

I should point out that the deviations from tuning between equal temperament and just intonation are the same for all major scales, i.e. use the deviation for the second step of the scale (‘E’ in concert pitch) for the second note of your B scale, which will register as “C#” on the tuner., etc

Bill

Thanks guys! As far as tuning, I’m not trying to tweak the heck out of the tuning of the chanter, I am more or less curious as to what the notes “ideally” should be. With my tuner (I use a Mac laptop when at home running a cool little tuner called Vocal Lab), it shows the note and the Hz along with the “ideal” Hz for that note. That whole just versus chromatic thing messes with my head, so if the tuner is saying I’m slighty flat on a note, I want to know that that is actually where I want to be.

At some point I’m going to start making reeds and it’s nice to know what the note values of the Super Ultimate Uilleann Reed might be.

Sorry if I’m not making sense. It’s been a long day.

I think your Mac tuner software will just confuse you further at this point. Best to ignore it altogether.

One thing’s for sure - the “ideal” tuning as reported by the software tuner is not correct for your chanter.

regards

Bill

Bill (&co)

What are the regulator notes on a B set?
Presumably the middle reg starts at the bottom with B …but every time I try to work it out it frazzles my poor concert-pitched brain :astonished:

Thanks

Boyd

Bill congratulations for spotting the even temperament and winning this weeks prize of exemption frae lockouts :party: :party: ye win a bonus prize for reading the article, of a weeks lock in in the local mental hospital :wink: I am glad ye found it interesting I found it boring as feck,like I said at the bottom I am happy for the set to be in tune with itself :slight_smile:
Boyd…here ye are
Bass from stock down A# G# F# E
Middle F# E D# B
Small A# G# F#E D#
Chanter B C# D# E F# G# A# B
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

I should have put the word “interesting” in inverted commas.
Liam your regulator notes are nearly the same as my reckoning, except that I take the top note on the tenor be A, not A#. (flatted seventh). Unless I’ve been tuning regs wrong all along! :slight_smile:

Bill

Bill I knew full well what ye meant by “interesting” when ye wrote it.I found the article just the same so maybe we should both share the prize in the insane asylum :wink:
Ye go wi A and I go wi A# I am happy enough wi mine…:wink:
Uilliam

Bill I owe ye an apology it should of course be A not A# thanks for pointing it out. :slight_smile:
Uilliam

Sounds like a possible chanter thing? You may have to resort to wax or tape here or there. What I have to do is take the flattest note on the chanter and tune it with and to the drones from there, in my case the F# (which is sort of a plus considering its relationship to the tonic). As a result, I usually have some wax to flatten the back D and A (using these notes as common parlance; I play a C set, but you know what I mean). Sometimes more, sometimes less, sometimes other toneholes, sometimes no wax at all. Depends on the day and the weather, and drone adjustments, leaks or their relative absence, and reed/guill adjustments - even playing in a different room, or outdoors - will all affect this too. I’m amazed at how one little measly tweak will affect everything sometimes, and you have to take the time to bring it all into tune again. I swear, one time I was working on the bellows flapper valve, and that changed things! :laughing:

Being as I play a flat set, the only reason I could see to be in indisputable relation to concert pitch would be for the sake of other musicians who won’t be tuning down…