Tunes for beginners - numbered or pic of fingering holes?

[chhangay]

Apologies for asking this but I have spent more than two hours now searching through the whistle/flute posts using tunes/numbered/newbie/beginner. I get results between 500+ 6000+

I have found a few sites elsewhere which offer a variety of tunes and a few of those tunes showing the vertical display of fingering for holes. (Although most, including sniff below) show them back to front not the way a beginner’s eyes and brain sees the holes…).


Tutor books give a few with fingering and then assume you can read music and just give straight notation.

Useful one is http://sniff.numachi.com
BUT at the end only about 30 tunes there I know and of those maybe only half a dozen in D which is what I need as a dumbo starter.
Also
Parlay4d - Bandar Agen Judi Online SBOBET88 Terbaik 2025
and
As I Roved Out Sheet Music

Just a few have them numbered (as in 6 5 4 etc)

With the numbers and or the dots I can really crack along learning the tune (rather than struggling with the process which will come later if u see what I mean)

I found a highly recommended site for teachers for their pupils - in fact all it gives is the notes by letter (D G etc). So I then had to find ways of pasting the numbers in against the letters which is really time consuming but …

D6 E5B F4 G3 A2 B1 C0 D5T E5B F4 G3 A2
d6 e5b f4 g3 a2 b1 c0 d5t e5b f4 g3 a2

I saw a discussion about Karaoke Tablature here, with ABC, for tin whistle but cant find the download anwyhere and not sure if it does the holes/numbers.

It would be a great boost for beginners if there was an easy to find collection of tunes with numbers/hole fingering in one place… if not here, then does someone know where please?

Finally an interesting fingering for starters here
http://www.playintune.net/fr
and if you rotate the screen with irotate from entechtaiwan.com
you get to see the robotic fingers as you play the whistle.

Just to say that I did make some efforts to start playing a year ago trying to copy this friendly site although the fingering gets quite difficult to see (compared with playintune.net/fr
I gave up.
Then I had another bash at a teaching weekend but did not persisit.

After an excellent 20 minute teaching session recently in Wales (South not NE Jem!) I reallised the numbers/holes were the fastest way to get going and as I said earlier I am cracking along now… hence the plea in this post.

The time of tunes I know in D are of the O’Carolan sort, or Skye Boat song, Last Rose of Summer.

Hope the many virtuosi here remember their first faltering steps and dont mind this kind of post.

[Denny]

print it, tape it to the wall … memorize it

C# OOO OOO
B  XOO OOO
A  XXO OOO
G  XXX OOO
F# XXX XOO
E  XXX XXO 
D  XXX XXX

[Kypfer]

I was in a similar situation only a few months ago … after faffing about for a few days with various “notations”, diagrams and methods I decided to settle down, memorise which dot on the stave translated to which hole directly on the whistle and went from there. Don’t worry about all these “simplified” schemes for reading music, there’s only one that’s stood the test of time … dots on lines. I still can’t “read” music, but if I know the tune (for the timing) I can figure out which notes I need from the stave on the screen/paper and take it from there … “simples” (almost .

[beor_uaine]

Outside of learning by ear, standard notation is probably the best.

But, and remember this is from a rank beginner, I find that learning tunes I am familiar with helps me with fingering. I started by making a note of which notes a song had on a separate staff, from lowest to highest, and matching that to a fingering chart so I had a visual. But my sight reading is not very good, so I still have to listen and learn timing by ear. Some songs that have helped me are actually religious, like Sing of Mary, Pure and Lowly and Joy to the World; and also Danny Boy. They helped me learn to transition between what for me are awkward fingerings, as well as helping me learn to transition between octaves embouchure-wise, and helping me learn which fingering goes with which notes on the staff. I find that familiarity makes me comfortable. And it’s easier to learn and play if you’re comfortable.

[an_seanduine]

@beor uaine

Outside of learning by ear, standard notation is probably the best.

I concur.
Denny is also right.
Almost any notation system can become a ball and chain.
Lacking a sympathetic and patient tutor, we have YouTube and slowdown software like BestPractice.
No matter how, eventually you have to get the tune into your head and make it one with your inner ear. Then you’ll find yourself waking up with it playing in your mind and reach for your instrument. . .and then you’ll be another TuneHead
Bob

[chhangay]

Thank-u-all kindly!
Trouble is, I know the tunes and have them in my head… the issue for the rank beginner as regards fingering is matching the dots on the paper(or the screen ) to the placing of the fingers…
It is interesting that the fastest speed at which I have ever seen beginners learning tunes on the melodeon has been a numbers-only system used by Pete Grassby**
ah well… I will certainly try out your tips but I may be stuck with my clumsy numbering!!

**
http://www.actionability.co.uk/PG/

and playing something a tad bigger than a whistle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GndDixyw8iU

[MTGuru]

Putting on my music educator’s hat … The fact that you’re not finding much in the way of flute tablature should tell you something about the desirability of flute tablature.

Any notation is just a mapping from a symbol on the page to something physical on your instrument. If you can make the leap from “picture of closed holes” to D6 E5 etc., just eliminate the number and you’ve almost got it. There are only 7 letter names, and 7 unique fingerings. Learn the positions on the staff, and you’re there. Take a simple piece and write the letter names above each note. After a few days you’ll begin to ignore the written names.

In other words, staff notation is really very easy, as easy as any of the substitutes. And it rewards a tiny bit of effort and patience by unlocking the vast treasure of notated music. So there’s no reason to recommend an alternative notation (except ABC notation, which is just staff notation in a different guise).

I’ve seen classes of 8-year-olds learn basic pitch notation in a few hours. Anyone can do it. You can do it.

[Hup]

Don’t bother using any notation at all. Try playing a few tunes you already can
hum or whistle. Working it out by trial and error is much more effective than
wasting time learning some kind of code or notation. Want to learn music?
Just start playing. Otherwise you’re doing programming or touch-typing.

After you’ve been going for a little while, if you have any great need to learn
how to read sheet music, you can concentrate on that since you already know
the basics of how to play.

[chhangay]

Tks again.

[beor_uaine]

Hup’s got a good point. And now that I think about it, the very first tune I ever learned to play was Amazing Grace. It’s simple and you can learn it by ear because you probably already know it. The very first note is the bottom D on your flute. Goes up to the second D for its highest note. You won’t even need paperwork for it!

[an_seanduine]

If you know the tunes, then with only the addition of the cross-fingered C nat, which is usually available as xx0 000 or xx0x00 on most flutes and well intune, you’ve ready access to a ton of ‘chunes. Dmaj,Gmaj, associated modes, and even Amin since a lot of tunes use a gapped mode without the G#, altho’ that too may be doable on a keyless flute. All of this with the “No Paperwork Need Apply” lit.
Sometimes, when I don’t have a tune in mind, I’ll just noodle around and find I’ve played the first part of a tune, or the beginning of the ‘turn’ and then just ‘fall to’ picking out the rest of it.
Bob

[benhall.1]

@an seanduine

If you know the tunes, then with only the addition of the cross-fingered C nat, which is usually available as xx0 000 or xx0x00 on most flutes and well intune, you’ve ready access to a ton of ‘chunes. Dmaj,Gmaj, associated modes, and even Amin since a lot of tunes use a gapped mode without the G#, altho’ that too may be doable on a keyless flute. All of this with the “No Paperwork Need Apply” lit.
Sometimes, when I don’t have a tune in mind, I’ll just noodle around and find I’ve played the first part of a tune, or the beginning of the ‘turn’ and then just ‘fall to’ picking out the rest of it.
Bob

Your C nats aren’t right there, Bob. I can’t decipher what fingering you mean for the second one, but the first one should have been OXX OOO, not what you put.

[Denny]

an’ sometimes OXO XXX
but not “A”

[an_seanduine]

Whoops! Comes from testing the egg nog mix too often!
Bob

[Jager]

@an seanduine

If you know the tunes, then with only the addition of the cross-fingered C nat, which is usually available as xx0 000 or xx0x00 on most flutes and well intune, you’ve ready access to a ton of ‘chunes. Dmaj,Gmaj, associated modes, and even Amin since a lot of tunes use a gapped mode without the G#, altho’ that too may be doable on a keyless flute. All of this with the “No Paperwork Need Apply” lit.
Sometimes, when I don’t have a tune in mind, I’ll just noodle around and find I’ve played the first part of a tune, or the beginning of the ‘turn’ and then just ‘fall to’ picking out the rest of it.
Bob

There’s no G# in A minor. There is in A major, but not minor. A minor has the F nat on the other hand.

[MTGuru]

@Jäger

There’s no G# in A minor. There is in A major, but not minor.

Oh, maybe there is.

A natural minor: A B C D E F G A
A harmonic minor: A B C D E F G# A
A melodic minor: A B C D E F# G# A (G F E D C B A)

True, minor in ITM usually means natural minor = Aeolian mode. But not necessarily.

[Jager]

@MTGuru

@Jäger

There’s no G# in A minor. There is in A major, but not minor.

Oh, maybe there is.

A natural minor: A B C D E F G A
A harmonic minor: A B C D E F G# A
A melodic minor: A B C D E F# G# A (G F E D C B A)

True, minor in ITM usually means natural minor = Aeolian mode. But not necessarily.

Actually, unless stated otherwise, conventinally, minor just means aeolian. Regardless of genre.

[MTGuru]

@Jäger

Actually, unless stated otherwise, conventinally, minor just means aeolian. Regardless of genre.

No, not always. Unless stated otherwise, “minor” is technically ambiguous and the meaning may depend on the context, including genre context.

By definition, minor refers to the interval relation between the tonic and the 3rd of the scale or mode. A major 3rd gives major, a minor 3rd gives minor. The other scale tones are actually quite flexible, as in many world music scales: Arab maqamat/taqsim, Indian ragas, etc.

Of course, Western art music has settled on the subset of three that I mentioned above. And in Common Practice (i.e. classical music) you’re pretty safe assuming that unqualified “minor” often means a form of melodic minor - with a raised 6th, and a raised 7th as a leading tone or lower neighbor. For example, in a V-i cadence, where the 3rd of the V becomes the raised 7th leading tone of the i.

In a mostly modal music like ITM, “minor” most often means Aeolian, agreed. Or sometimes Dorian, which is also a minor mode. Or, an ambivalent gapped mode missing the 6th. Again, the meaning is context-dependent. Which is why it’s sometimes useful to say Aeolian to mean Aeolian.

Anyway, hope that helps.

[beor_uaine]

Minor means relative minor, which always means Aeolian mode. Harm min, Mel min, etc, mean something different. While you can think of the other modes as minors also, when it comes to key, “min” refers to Aeolian.

The Relative Minor to a Major Key is always found by looking at the sixth note of the major scale. In C, the first degree is Ionian beginning on C. The sixth note of C Ionian is A. A Aeolian is the sixth mode. For the Key of C, the relative minor is A min.

(Just to clarify something, The “major” mode is Ionian, and the “minor” mode is Aeolian, and the simplest way to remember the intervals is to refer to the 8 note scale they make in C Major. If you take the set of intervals of the Ionian mode and play it beginning at a different note, you have a different major scale. The root tone is your Major key. If you take the set of intervals for the Aeolian mode and play it starting at a different note, you get a different minor scale. The root tone then is your minor key. The relative minor to a Major is always the sixth tone of the major scale, and the third tone of the minor scale is always your major.)

For example (if memory serves):
For the Key of G (1 sharp, F#), we have G Ionian, the sixth degree of which is E Aeolian. So we have E min as our relative minor to G major. [A Dorian (Dorian being the second classical mode), which has been mentioned, is in the key of G Major.]
For the Key of D (2 sharps, F#, C#), we have: D Ionian, the sixth degree of which is B Aeolian. Therefore, the relative minor for the major key of D, is B min.

This is part of classical musical theory.

[MTGuru]

For those whose eyes are about to glaze over, I recommend eye drops.

@beor uaine

Minor means relative minor, which always means Aeolian mode.

No, “minor” by itself does not always mean or imply relative minor or Aeolian, unless you explicitly say relative minor or Aeolian.

Your description of the concept of relative minor is correct as far as it goes. But you’re confusing relationships between keys/modes on the one hand with the defining interval relationships within a key/mode on the other.

The [u]Wikipedia definition[/u] of minor is actually correct and fairly concise:

A minor scale in music theory is generally any scale that includes at least three essential scale degrees: one being the tonic, another at an interval of a minor third above the tonic, and another at an interval of a perfect fifth above the tonic

In other words - and since the scales and modes we commonly use always* include perfect 5th - it’s simply the minor third above the tonic that defines a minor scale or mode, nothing more. Which is what I said in my previous post.

(* The exception being the rare Locrian mode, which has a tritone in place of the perfect 5th.)

Of course, the separate concept of relative minor key follows naturally from the basic definition of a minor scale. If you look at the notes of a major scale, the only scale degree that forms a minor 3rd interval with the tonic is the 6th degree, located a minor 3rd below the upper tonic. So by definition in Western art music, the key you get by “rotating” the major scale to begin on the 6th degree is called the relative minor key - relative to the major. It’s also convenient that these two share the same key signature.

For example: C D E F G A B C. This is by definition a (C) major scale because the scale 3rd C-E is major. Now rotate the scale around the 6th note, A, to produce: A B C D E F G A. And voilà, now the scale 3rd A-C is minor, so you have an A minor scale. And since it was constructed from a C major scale, A minor is designated as the relative key of C major.

While you’re at it, you could then alter any of the tones except the defining minor 3rd, and still have an A minor scale. For example: A Bb C Db E F# G# A. Yes, that’s “A weird minor”.

As Western art music and theory in the baroque period moved away from modality toward a stricter, simplified major/minor approach, the idea of relative minor key became useful. It’s a less useful idea in modal music (such as ITM), where all modes are relative to each other by rotation. And there are three related minor modes (Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian) for a given major Ionian mode.

But again, this is all secondary stuff, as long as you stick with the basic definition of minor as the minor 3rd. And you specify relative, melodic, natural etc. when you mean a specific usage.

And only “an seanduine” can say what he really meant when he triggered all this.