I’m working on learning a tune called “F-sharp Minor Slip Jig”. On the recording of the tune I have (by John Skelton) he plays only once through the A and B parts.
Is this normal for slip jigs, normal for this tune, or just a quirk?
nice tune by the way…
Thanks.
-Brett
…just finished ABCing the tune, here it is:
Actually, I just figured out my problem. Slip jigs only have 4 measures per part! I know three slip jigs counting this one but hadn’t ever noticed they were only 4 measures. The first two I learned completely by ear so I never even noticed…one of the drawbacks of learning completely by ear IMVHO…I don’t get a very good “big picture” idea of the tune.
[ This Message was edited by: Bretton on 2003-01-03 23:55 ]
I got John Skelton’s “A Few Tunes” CD and tune book combo last year. If that’s what you’re listening to, it’s a teaching aid.
I’m willing to bet that usually the tune is played an agreed-upon number of times (3, in the session I used to go to) and then off to something else.
If it were a 32-bar jig or reel (or even hornpipe, but played without a limping rhythm) for a contra dance, you’d run through it 5-7 times and then flog another tune or two for the same amount of time or until the caller signals the end of the dance.
There are repeat marks at the end of each section, so it would be usual to play it AA/BB (and that is typical for jigs). My guess is that he just decided to do it differently for some reason.
As far as I can remember (and that’s not too far at the moment) either Michael McGoldrick and John McSherry, or Kevin Crawford, recorded this tune on their respective CDs (At First Light, and In Good Company) - and, again as far as I remember, it was doubled (ie played AABBAABB… etc). There are some tunes that can be played either singly or doubled, and it just varies from place to place or player to player.
Deirdre
This is “The Cock and the Hen”, and it’s been recorded a zillion times (never with that name, as far as I know). It’s on the second Lunasa album (last tune in track 3) and Dervish’s Live at Palma. As far as I know, it’s always played AABB. (Common to here it in B minor, too.)
Usually played with all without the weird E downbeats given in the notation above.
Granted, the scale is incomplete (no G). Now F# Dorian would still have 4# : F# G#(missing ok) C#, and D#. Here it’s =D. Caramba, accidente!
Hence my wonder.
The title says F# minor, score signed 3#–all this points F# Eolian/natural minor. So, minor F# as in Eolian F#, OK. But something again doesn’t fit at all : the tune starts, ends up in E… both sections! So Eolian F# maybe, but just as well Mixolydian E… Or is it Dorian E ? Same tones anyway…
Now, I wonder if this particular score has been transposed to be played easier on a D whistle? Shoot everything up one tone, add one or a couple # (hey, what’s the difference, put two–makes it richer) to the signature, play on a E scale instrument, and you would have Dorian F# indeed. Or Mixolydian.
Now please do tell me where I’m wrong–I’m certainly no expert.
Those Es which start the first three measures of the A part aren’t how the tune is usually played – they “should” be F#s. With that, the A part is clearly in F# minor (or some other F# mode, but it might as well be minor) and the B part is in A major.
I’d usually play the tune (Fs and Cs sharp) ~F3 FEF C3…
On 2003-01-04 12:05, Bretton wrote:
The Key of F# would have 4 sharps but F#min has a flattened 7th which makes the D# a D-natural. (F# Dorian would still have the D# I believe).
This is the usual ambiguity of saying just “minor”. Dorian (with D# in this case) is ofte referred to as minor; so is, of course, Eolian (same scale with a flattened 7th =D).
Colomon, most F# minor modes (Eolian, harmonic, melodic) share the signature of A major (3#); Dorian (minor, too) F# is an offset scale of E major (4#). Hence, an E whistle would easily handle all from xxx_xxo, while you’d be in trouble starting from a F# or C# instrument.
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2003-01-05 06:36 ]
I’m well aware that F# is the relative minor of A major.
Since “The Cock and the Hen” has no G#s in F# minor, you can play it as written on a D whistle. Or you can move all the fingers down one and play it in E minor on a D whistle. It’s one of those great tunes that can be easily played in three keys on a single whistle.
Thanks, Deirdre, Colomon. Your remarks about the score above being unusual seem to clear up the mud to me.
Where could I get a crash course on abc notation ?
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2003-01-05 12:44 ]
If I recall, JOhn Skelton says in his tunebook that he never knew the name of this tune.
The same tune is fully scored, charted, with chords etc and an interesting commentary in ethno-musicologist Dr. Chris Smith’s “Celtic Backup” book. This is a fabulous IrTrad theory and practice Book & companion CD, and I have greatly enjoyed whistling along with the tunes.
The tune in question in this thread is the second tune in a set with The Butterfly. I don’t have it in fromt of me, but my recollection is the tune is called “Dennis Ryan’s”.
COCK AND THE HEN, THE. AKA and see “Cathal McConnell’s,” “Dennis Ryan’s Slip Jig,” “Doodley Doodley Dank.” Irish, Slip (or sometimes, ‘Hop’) Jig (9/8). E Minor (‘A’ part) & D Major (‘B’ part) {Cole, Feldman & O’Doherty, Roche}: F# Minor (‘A’ part) & A Major (‘B’ part) {Taylor}: C Major (‘A’ part) & A Minor (‘B’ part) {Joyce}. Standard. AABB. The tune is sometimes called “Dennis Ryan’s Slip Jig” (by, for example the Boys of the Lough) in honor of the County Offaly fiddle player. The group Lunasa called it “Cathal McConnell’s” on their album “Otherworld,” in honor of the Boys of the Lough flute player. Source for notated version: fiddlers Francie and Mickey Byrne (County Donegal) [Feldman & O’Doherty]. Cole (1001 Fiddle Tunes), 1940; pg. 66. Feldman & O’Doherty (The Northern Fiddler), 1979; pg. 160 (appears as 1st “Untitled Slip Jig”). Joyce (Old Irish Folk Music and Songs), 1909; No. 529, pg. 284 (‘A’ and ‘B’ parts are reversed from Cole’s & Roche). Roche Collection, 1982; Vol. 2, pg. 24, No. 252. Taylor (Crossroads Dance), 1992; No. 53, pg. 40. Shaskeen - “The Mouse Behind the Dresser.” Patty Bronson and Laura MacKenzie - “Cherish the Ladies.” Kells Music 9501, Dervish - “Playing with Fire.” Chulrua - “Barefoot on the Altar” (appears as tune following “The Whinny Hills of Leitrim,” despite the fact that the liner notes call it another version of “The Whinny Hills”).
Now at home, & have pulled out my Chris Smith “Celtic Backup”, and see the Skelton F# Minor tune is in fact “Dennis Ryan’s”, or as Colomon’s posting confirms, aka Cock & the Hen.
Smith’s Commentary describes Dennis Ryan’s as having “very ambiguous harmonic implications and complex possibilities”. He then explains the shifting of tonal centers to imply an “A” Part in F# Dorian or Aeolian, with a “B” Part in A Ionian.
I do like this slip jig, indeed, and can understand why Dr. Smith would include it as one of his selections.
A Chord pattern possibility offered is:
F#min E / F#min D / F#min E / A E:
A D / A E / A D / A D Bmin:
