Too slow airs

I was listening the other day to a recording of a contemporary piper (to remain nameless) playing a slow air, and was reminded of the fact that I find a lot of people’s slow air playing a bit…well, too slow. Overwrought. Losing sight of the tune a bit.

Now I thought this was mainly down to my own taste, but last night I opened Joyce’s preface to Old Irish Folk music and find that both he and Bunting were in agreement:

“In connexion with the subject of time or movement, I will venture an opinion that our song tunes are generally played and sung (by present-day performers) too slowly : while, on the other hand, the dance music is often played too fast ; and in both cases the sentiment of the air is injured — sometimes utterly destroyed. To understand and appreciate a song tune, the ear of the listener must, as it were, catch the pace of the melody, which is extremely difficult when it is played too slowly, and still more so if it be overloaded with harmony. And in this manner a tune exquisitely beautiful when understood, may be made to a listener — even though he be a skilled musician— quite unintelligible, and devoid of all sentiment. On this subject Bunting makes the following very correct and interesting observations : — ’ The world is too apt to judge of our music as of a peculiarly plaintive character, partaking of our national feelings in a political point of view, and melancholy in proportion to the prospects of its composers. Nothing can be more erroneous than this idea. When the meeting of the harpers took place at Belfast in 1792, the editor, being selected to note down the tunes, was surprised to find that all the melodies played by the harpers were performed with a much greater degree of quickness than he had till then been accustomed to. The harpers made those airs assume quite a new character, spirited, lively, and energetic,certainly according much more with the national disposition than the languid and tedious manner in which they were, and too often still are, played among fashionable public performers, in whose efforts at realizing a false conception of sentiment the melody is very often so attenuated as to be all but lost’ (Ancient Music of Ireland, page 18.)”

I think he hits the nail on the head when he talks about the world being too quick to judge the music “as of a peculiarly plaintive character”.

I was also reminded of a comment made by Barnaby Brown on another bagpiping forum, about another piping tradition, when he talked about the “lamentization of the entire [pibroch] repertory” by the Victorians. Likewise I feel there’s a still a danger that Ireland’s fine stock of airs can easily get buried under an avalanche of misty, dreary sentiment and cliche, and the pipes seem particularly prone to this. Ennis on the other hand can get tenderness, dignity, passion, anger, regret, even humour into an air…much like the best of the sean nos singers can. The full range of human experience.

In short I’m going to try and be a bit less “languid and tedious” in my air playing, as Bunting would have put it.

I can only completly agree with this !
I’m afraid my english is too limited to explain what I think, but maybe can I sumarize it like this: I actually love popular traditionnal music, because this is a music talking to the whole body !
The western culture has a sad habit of considering that there’s dignity only in the things of the spirit !
Classical dancers would be able to fly, and everything that remind dance of the feet is nothing but vulgar.

What I love in our music is that it includes all dimensions: body and mind ( especially when it was played by people who knowed exactly what meant a relationship with soil or handworking…)

Maybe it has something to do with what you’re talking about ?

To me a slow air should have a tasteful overuse of dynamics a tempo that is variable within the feel of the air
and convey the emotions of the player. It should transport the listener first with a memorable experience and
second with an appreciation of the players/singers ability. A great slow air just sneaks up on you and leaves the listener spellbound


Rhythm and melody, rhythm and melody= Easy listening

Listen to one note long enough…

Bryan

I’m usually wary of shoulds and shouldn’ts, but in the case of airs I really think that one should first know the song an air comes from if you’re going to do it up right. We have the advantage of recorded music readily available to us from all sorts of sources these days, so even if you don’t have the words because it’s in Irish or Gaelic, you still have opportunities to hear and learn how various singers phrase the song. Keep in mind that when playing to a crowd of trad enthusiasts, it should be no surprise that at least one listener might know the song, and if you’re that person, there’s nothing worse than hearing an air played with no discernible connection to the lyrics of the song it comes from. A roomful of people who know the song but can’t follow it in your playing means you’re in trouble. Whatever liberties you take, the listener should still be reasonably able to sing along to the air (hopefully under their breath). If they can’t do that, then I’m afraid it must be argued that you really don’t know what you’re doing. When you embark upon learning an air, honor it by getting to know the song first, and then play it as if you’re singing it yourself. Doing it that way can never be wrong. Back me into a corner, and I’ll admit that I think it’s the only way.

The biggest compliment I ever got over playing an air was from someone who knew nothing of trad; she said that it was almost as if she could hear words through the melody. Committed as I’ve been to reflecting an air’s original song, that was the most encouraging thing I could ever have hoped to hear.

Of course there might be airs that were composed straight-up and never had a song to begin with, or the words have been lost, or what’s left is too fragmentary to use (The Lament for Staker Wallace, for one), but that’s another matter.

For sure it’s a fairly widely held opinion that the Highland ceol mor or piobaireachd is generally played too slowly nowadays.

Thing is, there are piobaireachd tunes called “marches” and references to them being used as marches in the military, but it’s hard to imagine people marching to them as now played.

Many years ago I heard Gold Medallist James MacColl playing a piobaireachd at a Scottish dinner while marching about the room; he believes that many examples of ceol mor were originally played more quickly and in steady rhythm.

You reminded me that I never did get to the final point in all my fine long-winded blather about Irish airs: that if you know the song and follow its lead as a singer would sing it on average, then your pace will also probably be just right. I mean, can you imagine singing, “Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-nny booooooooooooooooy … the pipes, theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee pipes … are caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaallliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing…”? Why, I’d deserve every beating I got.

:thumbsup:

How many did you get?

:smiling_imp:

Its a good point and in an ideal world thats the way it would be, but in reality the average piper doesn’t know the song of a particular slow air. Play what you feel to be right and of course listen to other musicians play it.

RORY

Maybe it has something to do with what you’re talking about ?

Indeed it does. The people who sung or played these tunes didn’t just divide everything into dances and laments no matter how “melancholy [their] prospects”, as Joyce had it.

Look at it this way, I’ve heard some pipers play bean dubh an gleanna or the Coolin like they were dirges, not love songs. Even some of the tunes expressly cast as laments turn out to have another twist (e.g. they’re about some books, or about a dead water-bird and a drinking habit).

I thought this might just be my taste but it turns out people were people were complaining the best part of two hundred years back about “fashionable public performers” playing airs too slowly.

I agree singers are always a good point of reference…it’s interesting that the air I mentioned on another thread recently, the Bright Lady, is one of those ones that is often taken particularly slowly and heavily ornamented, given that it doesn’t have any words that we know of. Are sung versions a useful corrective in that case?

Don’t you think it could be simply about having something to say, and how to tell it ?
I often compare playing traditionnal music with telling jokes: All is a question of style.
The worst story can be very good, when told by the right person.
Dance tunes can be played with the mere purpose of having rythm, pulse and fun. You can play them without taking any care of the "story"they tell, and it’ll do the job sufficiency for a lot of people.
With slow airs, the sense of the tune can’t be hidden behind such things…

I’m afraid that I’m not exactly sure what you mean, here. I sense that you’re suggesting that due to their nature, airs call for a more critical approach than dance tunes. Would that be right?

I’ll admit I’ve gone with that in a pinch. If the air tends to be played in pretty much the same general way whenever I hear it, I lay odds that I can rest on that with a certain degree of confidence. But I’m always uneasy about not having a song to refer to, whether the air still has one or not.

I was hoping you’d say I deserved one now.



I like the idea of playing as you would if you were singing the words … even if you don’t know the words, or even if the tune has no words at all. Yesterday evening, though, I heard a Largo in its original instrumental form, and thought the tempo was decidedly too fast. Yet I’ve heard the same tune with words attached, sung far too slowly to suit the words. Not so much different from Londonderry Air / Danny Boy.

I’ve also heard The High Road to Linton sung as puirt à beul at a very brisk pace, faster than I could sing it (and at this point faster than I can play it cleanly), and I think that’s just the right speed for it, no faster, no slower.

That’s my contention. BUT: that’s also my personal taste. As Rory pointed out, the argument can be made for leeway in doing what you feel is right regardless of other opinions (like mine :wink: ); for example, a musician might want to break the mold intentionally for artistic reasons. And if an air’s song is lost or nonexistent, then all bets are off, aren’t they, so you might as well do what feels right anyway, because apart from the examples you draw from, what else do you have?

Oh I get it. You play the instrument like a sound sample or a Karioke backing so we can all sing along, how niece.
I think I will stick with “Lord Mayo” (the air not march) and the “The song of books” and the like. Then listen to Danny Boy and wait for that NOTE does it have words or just that NOTE. Oh yes the beautiful “Mull of Kintare”


Where’s the vomit emicon

Well, you took the ball and ran with it, all right, but in a completely wrong direction. You might want to rethink being so snide.

I don’t know, I’ve always preferred the slower playing of airs. I like hearing the blending of the tones & shifting of the harmonics particularly on a nice flat set. And it’s funny Ennis is brought up because I’ve always considered him one of the slower ones. Playing along with him sometimes and it can feel like he’ll hold a note forever. Immediately the G at the end of his first run through Easter Snow (TRFF) comes to mind. And comparing it to other versions I have he is one of the slowest. You could also compare his version of Amhran na Leabhar (mentioned above) to JOBM’s on NPU source, which seems to come directly from SE, and Jimmy’s i think is much more playing at an appropriate singing pace while Ennis’ is more drawn out.

Even in singing I think speed will be a matter of taste and contention. Some of the singers from Connemara will spend several seconds putting ‘an blas’ into a single syllable - which I think, brings us into the often said “Ulster singing tends to put emphasis on lyrics and a clearer enunciation.” Almost as if they have to justify themselves against the stranglehold the Connemara singing had taken in the competitions and in peoples minds as the ‘proper’ sean nos.

Of course these are generalizations and one player can play better on way than another playing another… I think it’s just a matter of preference. The same is usually said about dance tunes (over and over). I’ve heard some say they can’t stand players like R Hannan as they consider it too fast, but I just consider it a different approach that carries with it it’s own nuances. For instance, something like Ennis’ variation in Miss Monahan 2nd time through going back to bottom D in places throughout the first section (which Hannan uses as well), works nicely when done at a lively speed. It plays percussively against the melody and wouldn’t work as well played at a slower tempo.

What I think Im trying to say is that different ways of playing tend to emphasis different things, and ultimately it’s a matter of preference without one way of being more correct.

Hi Moderateror Love the word “snide” it also needs an emo

Maybe I am on the wrong track. I have just been to a gig and on the way played a few CDs
I noted the following tunes by Gay McKeon that grabbed my attention
Lord Mayo , Stan le Maigh and Frank Roches Favourite Each tune has a range of beautiful musical
gymnastics. The feeling that there are unspoken words in the tunes and the player is trying to convey a meaning (atmosphere)
is moving and an absolute joy to listen to. “Made my day”

As for Danny Boy I saw a tv special on a number of people playing/singing Danny Boy. It was terrible until I heard
a version by Eric Clapton, again he milked it for all it was worth and nailed it


Each to his/her own

I belong to the “play it how you feel” camp. Some musicians appear to take great liberties with folk music. Sometimes I like what they do and sometimes I don’t. Try as I might, I can’t really put myself in the shoes of someone living 200 years ago in another country. Most often I will play a piece like I’ve heard someone else play it but I’m bound to sound different from them anyway.