A well-known piper has said to me on many occasions that concert pitch chanters almost universally lack tone.
[He did say he had once heard a D chanter with good tone…was made in the US].
Thought I’d “pitch” this one in and see if I can get a few opinions.
What do you think?
Boyd.
Depends on how you define ‘tone’ Boyd. I suppose my thoughts on the concert pitch are known not to go into those to much.
I would agree a lot of wide bore [and I sweep some maker’s flat set into this category]chanters lack in tonal variety caused by the big hole-strong reed combination. Dismissing as lacking in tone wouldn’t be fair I think, even if a lot of them have an unpleasant one.
To avoid any misunderstanding, Peter was not the origin of the Tone question.
The piper in question doesn’t post here.
By tone I think a richness of sound, or character pleasing to the ear, is meant, rather than perfect tuning or whatever…listenability, maybe.
Boyd
Boyd,
I would reckon that most peoples route into piping comes from hearing concert pitch sets from tapes/records/cds. Of coure there is the titanic/braveheart experience, but let us put that aside 
Therefore, some have “tone” that pleases the average ear, and some don’t, else they would have been binned long back. Some people like nylon string guitars, some people like Roaring distorted feedback. (I like both. And often the player makes all the difference.
Blah blah blah
Cheers
Alan
“Tone” or Timbre is such a relative thing and completely depends on one’s personal preference or ear that it seems difficult to define exactly what one means.
If you mean a richness of timbre, then I would have to disagree that all wide-bore D chanters lack “tone.” I have played a variety of wide-bore D chanters and the timbre has ranged from sounding like you’re playing a chanter with a stuffed nose or mute (an older Ginsburg) to an extremely rich tone with harmonic overtones (a Rowsome).
Reeds also contribute greatly to the tone. Take a chanter and use a cane reed, then use an elder reed in the same chanter. The Timbre is quite different.
Dionys
Yes..there’s a mixture of the reed qualities as well as the chanter design involved.
Some would say that’s why the classic [flat] sets have such rich tone…the reed size and shape and the chanter bore & shape combine perfectly.
Boyd
[ This Message was edited by: boyd on 2002-11-05 12:44 ]
I think it might also be argued that a lot of pipers lack tone! Particularly with concert pitch it takes a greater effort to produce a good sound. A lot of research might have to be done into reeds ect to produce a good sound. Many pipers don’t put in this effort and expect to sound brilliant. Also volume and sweetness get confused. Just because a chanter is quiet doesn’t mean it’s sweet. I’ve heard many concert chanters (and flat)of which people say “isn’t it lovely and sweet ect” when the reality is that they sound thin weedy and awful. The fact that tone and sweetness and volume are not the same can be heard if you stick on a CD for instance of Robbie Hannon.
The pipes are I think Kenna, undeniably great tone ect. You can turn them up to max volume, but they are still sweet and toneful. Concert chanters can also be beautiful it just can take a lot of effort!
Hey there all;
You’ve intigued me with the tone of this thread. (Sorry, but cheap puns are almost as much fun as UPs, and way less work!)
I’ve noticed lately that my chanter (heretofore known as ‘The Wooden Tube’) and reed combo occasionally will jump from their normally thin, whiny, duck-strangling-on-a-hot-dog tone to a full-throated musical tone… but only if I push the reed right up to the edge of what it can take. I fear ruining the reed, but the improvement in tonal quality is huge.
This happens only on longer notes where I either bear down too hard in preparation for jumping the octave or when I’ve tried to jump the octave and failed.
I had another reed in the chanter that failed (long story there) but it did not have the kind of tonality that this reed now has after five months or so of playing in.
Now I should say that I’ve only heard two or three other sets played live; one was in Dublin… it -and the piper whose name I don’t remember- are the reason I’m playing now; the second is an earlier version of The Wooden Tube; and the third is a set that someone bored out from a narrow to a wide bore.
So I have a limited understanding of the live sound of the UP, but I’ve heard lots of recordings, and there’s enough variation on ‘The Drones and The Chanters’ alone to convince me that there is a huge difference in tone.
I’m going to stop the babbling now and get on with… uh… oh yea! life.
mark
Sure, the very same notes played on a flat set generally sound richer than a standard D set, all variables aside.
Using the same excellent reed in every D chanter, of course you’d find richer/poorer tones produced from chanter to chanter. It’s like using the same expensive gortex guitar strings on cheap/expensive guitars…sure the strings make a difference but it’s the construction of the guitar that’s in question. It’s like some pipe makers just haven’t figured out how to take the mute off of the violin, I guess (what a difference added/subtracted wood can make in all the right places of any wooden instrument, bracing included).
The beauty of a standard large-bore set of D pipes is that they can be played in bands with other instruments, with volume to match. But the sacrifice of richness in tone or timbre is made up for, I think, for the purpose. For solo work, flat sets are just flat-out better because of their natural sweetness and ease of playing.
Basically, the lower frequencies of all lower pitched instruments, within their respective families, produce a richer tone for the range of the human ear. I’m thinking cello v. violin, flute v. fife, tenor v. soprano, etc..
But then, the best test is to play your pipes for your cat… 
As the instrument is still young, there is room for exploitation/exploration of sound/tone, if you know what I mean. As we are hemmed in by the limitations musically of them, we can make up for it by expression of sound. If you look upon them as purely a traditional instrument for traditional music then you won’t go as far exploring. Imagine Steve Reich writing for UPs. Concert pitch would be the choice tone generator for that one, hands down.
Cheers
Alan
I was intrigued to hear the difference in the tone of my flat chanter before and after an application of linseed oil. It was a fairly dramatic “sweetening”, or at least that’s the word that popped into my head upon hearing the sound. Plus, my chanter and hurley stick now smell alike. The thing I can never remember is which takes raw linseed oil and which takes boiled (and which of these spontaneously combusts? Seriously, my fellow hurler awoke one morning to find his hurley-maintenance-cupboard aflame.)
BC
I would guess the boiled as you have lowered the flash point by boiling it. I have to admit I love the smell of linseed oil, though I prefer to use sweet almond oil myself.
Dionys
i was wondering how a player acquires good tone - any ideas?
How much depends on the instrument and how much on the player?
Most would say the instrument is a much greater factor than the player, although things like playing off the knee more can add tonal qualities.
And under-blowing the chanter reed could reduce “tone”
Boyd
Player and tone.
I already refered to Liam Flynn playing on Seamus Ennis’ pipes, sounding like Liam Flynn playing a flat set. Flynn said that when Ennis played Flynn’s Rowsome set he immediately had that unmistakable Ennis tone. Willie Clancy had that same set of pipes on loan from Sean Reid during the 60s. He sounded like Willie Clancy playing a Rowsome set and not even remotely like Flynn playing the same pipes.
I have also often [to some of you off list] told about Maire ni Ghrada collecting her Wooff C. Geoff on that occasion playing the Harrington, I playing my own Woof and Maire playing her new set. We all sounded very distinctly different but when swapping pipes around we all still souded exactly the same as before, regardless of the set we were playing.
The piper brings an awful lot to the sound. And it is crucial when playing the pipes that the player explores the sounds the chanter can give you. Breandan Ring above said effort has to go in and I couldn’t agree more, playing with your chanter glued to your knee using fingeringchart fingerings t oplay your notes will not make for piping without any colour.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-11-07 11:11 ]
…
I very much agree with Peter about the importance of playing off the knee to increase the range of tonal possibilities. But there may be some confusion in some people’s minds because that doesn’t necessarily mean playing an open style.
One of the key features of Ennis’s playing is how he uses the open chanter for tonal effect but closes it for strategically positioned tight notes and triplets. It’s his combination of open and closed playing that gives that particular mix of rich tone, a flowing overall sound and crisp clarity in the details.
[ This Message was edited by: stew on 2003-02-27 17:20 ]
Stew,
I am laughing to myself…here I am sitting trying to get any sort of pipes to get started and you have three sets!!!
Anyhow I think you must be a well known professional piper who is rolling the money in through recording contracts you pro’s get!
How much would it take to replace your pipes if they were say damaged in some sort of accident or something?
I guess a lot since I can’t even afford a practice set!!
Who is the maker of all your pipes?
[ This Message was edited by: Big George on 2003-02-27 10:56 ]
Tone & Tune
I agree with Brendan here, the concert D chanter was made so it could be heard in the days when there were no amps around, people sitting at the front of the concert hall would get a totally different sound/ tone than those at the back, the main thing is that the chanter is as near in tune with any others its playing with.
Davy.