So Nico whistlers can’t “figure out how to seperate three notes in a row (for instance see the two piping tunes, Garrett Barry’s and An Phis Fluich) without tonguing” because their instrument is different. They can’t “Tip the Chanter” to cut off the air flow so they have to use their tongue as one of two ways (the other being cutting) I know to separate notes. I know you were joking (I guess) but being a beginner I got a little worried there.
Nothing new here but I thought I’d add my $.02.
I think it can be a useful exercise for new players to try playing without using their tongue at all for a while, but I’m definately on the “use your tongue tastefuly” side of things. Many of the players I like quite a bit (Mary Bergin, Grey Larsen, Micho Rusell) use quite a bit of tongue.
And, many of the players I don’t care for (can’t think of one at the moment cause I don’t care enough to remember) are ones who almost never tongue. It ends up sounding like a long slurry (is that a word?) of notes with no obvious landmarks. However, maybe this is just due to my trad. Irish musical inexperience.
On the other hand, I’ve been working on the flute the last several months and I find that I like much smoother style of flute playing. I really don’t care for the old style huff-n-puff rythmic style playing.
-Brett
Actually, you are both correct (Brad and Cynth), I wasn’t thinking… so, tonguing is a useful thing.
I was mostly responding to the idea that seperating three notes without tonguing is impossible, which of course it isn’t.
I would do a roll. A cut, and a tap. Or, if I’m feeling daring, two cuts, or two taps. I don’t often tongue myself. But I’m not a very good whistler.
But to get a similar effect as on the pipes would be to tongue.
Okay, Nico, I see what you were thinking. That it is literally possibly to separate 3 notes without tonguing. And yep, that is true. 
I’m not actually up to rolls yet.
Silly wabbit! 
To tongue or not to tongue is not as is ‘‘when’’?
My teacher was giving me an exercise in not tonguing seeing as I explained to him that I only toot/ tongue in particular pieces or places.
I had to relearn “Silver Spear”, how humiliating! With no tonguing.
The teacher recommends I try to play everyone of the pieces I’ve ever learnt without tonguing for a week. I am. I’ve seen that it doesn’t work in all of them.
I can see where he’s coming when he says that he believes that it’s nice to play a variety of styles.
But I agree that some of my favourite whistle players (Mary Bergin, Micho Russell) use a lot of tonguing.
I believe that as he plays the pipes. His way of playing the whistle is always going to be different to mine. I told my teacher that I 've no interest in learning the pipes. 
With respect, sweet flute, I think you’re missing your teacher’s point. I would imagine his advice has nothing to do with your one day playing the pipes, but with learning to articulate differently. Trust your teacher - unless you think you know more about this music than he does (and if that’s the case, why are you going to him for lessons?).
I recommend exactly the same exercise to student whistlers, especially those with a classical background. You should not regard it as humiliating but as a chance to learn.
Out of curiosity, what pieces does it “not work” in?
Steve
NicoMoreno wrote:
It was in direct response to Blaydo’s post wherein he stated he didn’t see how it was possible to make tunes with three notes in a row sound good.
I was mostly responding to the idea that separating three notes without tonguing is impossible, which of course it isn’t
NicoMoreno: That is NOT what I ‘stated’, this is what I said:
Blaydo wrote:
I really can’t see how you could possibly play the likes of the Rakes of Mallow without some tonguing, it would just sound terrible.
Again depending on the tune I would sometimes tongue 2 or 3 notes that are the same, instead of putting in cuts or rolls. I think you really need a bit of both to add some variety.
I wasn’t talking about 3 notes that are the same. The Rakes of Mallow does NOT have 3 notes in a row that are the same, at least not the version I learned. The reason it would sound terrible would be clear even just from the first six notes which go in the order of G B G B G B and these 6 notes are typically played by tonguing each one separately. This is the type of rhythm that this set dance is supposed to have. Now if you disagree with this, then instead of sarcastic posts perhaps you could link me to a version of this tune that is played on the whistle slurred straight through without any tonguing that actually sounds good. This would be a lot more helpful for me as I’m only playing a few months and I’m trying to learn as much as I can about this subject.
I thought it would have been fairly clear that I’m well capable of separating 3 notes in a variety of different ways. Yes, I can do rolls but as the subject was about tonguing I mentioned some of the ways that I vary them. Instead of rolls I may tongue the first two and cut the 3rd or a la Micho, cut the 2nd and tongue the 3rd one etc.
Flauta dolce maybe you should just find another teacher who’s style suites you better and if you find one let me know! I’m in Dublin too and I’d like to get some lessons or even meet up with other whistlers for some knowledge sharing and perhaps a few pints!
Hmm, you’re right, I was thinking of the Rakes of Kildare.
As for the quote above, it still seems like you’re saying that three notes in a row un-tongued doesn’t sound that great. Which I disagree with.
For what it’s worth (I do NOT think of myself as a good whistler) I wouldn’t tongue the Rakes of Mallow.
I meant to say that some other ways (besides cutting, tapping and rolls) to seperate notes would be to drop one (like take a breath there), play a triplet (for instance instead of ggg, gag or gf#g) or even a quadruplet (for a jig).
And I am firstly a whistler not a piper. And not very good at either.
Oh thank you Nico—These sound like good ideas. I am now thinking Peter once mentioned to someone about playing a triplet as you suggest but I had forgotten. I had not thought of the dropping one situation but that sounds like something good to remember too when looking for breathing spots. The book I’m using recommends not tonguing unless you want to emphasize a note, so I rarely do it just in case you got a different notion. It does make the note a staccato note, at least when I do it, so it does stand out quite a lot. And one might not want any of 3 notes in a row to stand out, so these are good alternatives.
I appreciate your response. It got a little confusing in there. One thing I’ve learned is that “good” means very different things to different people so I only know you’ve clearly been at it a lot longer than I have. I’m just glad I’m not a whistle teacher in Dublin right now.
Not at all, I said I sometimes tongue some or all of these notes depending on the tune. Of course theres nothing wrong with a nice short or long roll on 2 or 3 similar notes but it’s nice to vary them a bit. Admittedly my rolls aren’t great so I tend to do this more so.
When you say you wouldn’t tongue the Rakes of Mallow, is there any way I could hear what way this turns out for you? Don’t suppose you have a clip online I could listen to? This is the style that I’m TRYING to play it in:
http://www.esatclear.ie/~lorenzo/rakes_of_mallow.mp3
p.s. sorry didn’t see your last post was tying this at the time
When you say you wouldn’t tongue the Rakes of Mallow, is there any way I could hear what way this turns out for you? Don’t suppose you have a clip online I could listen to? This is the style that I’m > TRYING > to play it in:
I don’t think I’d want to play it like that. So, I guess it’s really a matter of opinion. I don’t have anything online, and anyway, you’re better off listening to the likes of Brad Hurley than me.
Actually the more I think about it, I really don’t like that tune all that much. I might tongue it, I guess, but I doubt I’d really play it much.
I’m sure you’d be delighted to be a teacher in any city right now 
Well it’s a very basic tune and just one I started off with but I’m a bit bored with it at this stage.
I guess… I have to say, I’m not a huge fan of polkas, although there are some that are quite fun.
Okay gang, in the interest of experimentation I made a clip of the reel Teampall an Ghleanntain played on a C whistle, twice through with a bit of tonguing here and there followed by twice through with no tonguing at all and just finger articulation.
As you can hear, it actually doesn’t sound too bad without any tonguing, much to my surprise, although I think the tonguing on the short rolls at the beginning of the A part adds lift and I would generally play it that way. I suppose if I worked on the no-tongue version a bit more it could sound tighter, though.
http://www.firescribble.net/teampail.mp3
If you want to hear how this reel should really sound, listen to the second track of Mick O’Brien and Caoimhin O’Raghallaigh’s album, Kitty Lie Over.
It shows that tonguing or not, a good player can make any tune sound great.
That sounded really nice Brad. Your ornamentation is crisp enough that it almost sounds like tonguing in a few spots…
-Brett