I’m thinking taking up the flute and getting a “Tipple” to get myself started because of ALL the GOOD stuff I’ve heard about them. Including how some professional flute players have been VERY pleasantly surprised at just how GOOD they are considering how basic/simple they are as well. But not in spite of mind you.
Yet some others have derided them as being GOOD for little more than to take camping to fight off wild animals with as nothng more than a stout plastic club.
Somewhere in here I think; http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/25779
Well, since it seems that people in the know like them well enough in reasonable numbers, what’s up with all the negativity? Is it because that do not make the PERFECT (whatever that means and whomever gets to define it) sound, or what?
Or are these just the flute “purists” of the kind of Pipers who insists that wood bagpipes are FAR superior to Delrin, but couldn’t tell the differenc in the playing if they heard them from behind a curtin? Or maybe they are jealous that they spent so much more money for something that it little better…if at all? But all that just seems unduely churlish to me.
Let me add to Michael’s discussion about my flutes. I think that my current flutes with the larger oval embouchure are superior to the flutes that I have made in the past. I am spending more time with cutting the embouchure, becoming a little more perfectionistic about the whole process of flutemaking. This is to say that you can’t judge the quality of my present flutes from flutes that I made in the past. The only thing that I haven’t done is to raise my prices. I am making a few flutes as a retirement hobby, and I don’t have to support a family, as other flutemakers do.
Do try one! At Doug’s price-point, you can’t go wrong, and they are very good, playable flutes. That’s how I started.
But also remember, they’re cylindrical flutes, not tapered bore like (what we call) a ‘true’ Irish flute. So there are differences in the way they feel and play. If flute-playing agrees with you you’ll probably step up to a higher-end instrument eventually.
Ummm, no. Doug (IMHO) has taken the technology of cylindrical flutes to a point of near-perfection. But they’re still cylindrical flutes, and are disadvantaged relative to their conical cousins, according to nearly all who really play the things.
Michael … Having read about your unsuccessful six-year struggle with the fife, I’d say that the limiting factor for any flute you get will be your own embouchure. It’s apparently not something that comes naturally to you, and you’re going to need both guidance and plenty of time to develop it. Given that, any flute with a reputation for playability will do. The distinctions of sound and tone you’re concerned with will not come into play until you’ve made some progress and can begin to judge such things for yourself.
In that context, the Tipple flute is a fine and affordable choice, with excellent resale demand if and when you decide to move to a more conventional model. In the right hands, the Tipple is capable of holding its own in any session. In fact, last weekend Michael Eskin demoed for me the very flute that was discussed on The Session and played by Ben Jaber. And I can verify that Doug’s latest design is capable of a rich, warm, focused tone that is quite impressive.
As for lessons and teachers … Richard Cook (pancelticpiper here) is a fine fluter located in Orange County who may be willing to teach. Teacher Ben Power (bepoq1 here) sometimes travels between San Diego and LA, and is another fine choice.
In addition, there is a fine weekly session scene in both [u]San Diego and LA[/u], with strong fluters at both. A visit to one of these sessions could be part of an excellent start, for both information and inspiration.
Very elegant side step, Crooked Tune. Smooth avoidance of my plaintive WHY…?
But you’re right. Whatever answers I get, if any, I’ll still have to find out for myself.
I have an African blackwood conical and when I get back from here (Mexico) with my trusted and superb Tipple I shall see if I can discern what everyone else but me seems to understand already …
DENNY: I’d have thought you as a Tipple enthusiast and an experienced flutist would have some kind of opinion even if it’s challengeable …?
Even MTG is slipping and sliding from a direct confrontatation of my question, WHY …?
As for Doug, he is just letting his flutes speak for themselves I suppose, dang it …
I think crookedtune DID answer your Q, without any sidestepping. There are differences in the ways cylinder bodied flutes (or whistles) respond from the ways conoid bodied ones do. And no, the wedge in the head does not really affect that. The wedge is a tuning-correction substitute for the Bohm “parabolic” head taper, necessary for a cylindrical body. It doesn’t much affect the other playing characteristics of the instrument.
Of course these things are to some extent subjective, are perceived differently by player and hearer (if at all by the latter), and even where they may be objective differences, they are not easy to define/describe well. I think (going out on a limb here!) there would be some consensus among competent fluters that cylindrical bodied flutes have overall a rounder, more open tone. They can be quite easy to get quite rich, loud and powerful low tones on, but those sounds have a different character (partials component) to the equivalent ones on a conoid body. The player’s perceptions of resistance will also be different between the two types of tube, and not just with Doug’s. I have played both metal and wooden Bohm system flutes and also a fine Rudall Carte Bohm-tube wooden simple system flute. All had quite a different feel and response and (to my “behind the flute” ears, sound) compared to my conoid flutes. Doug’s flutes (and I am a fan) in playing terms feel more like those, as one might expect. But to really understand, you have to be a good enough player to try out the two types of body and make your own evaluations.
Oh, sorry Michael. I’m looking at the span from your first posts here on the Chiffboard back in 2005 asking about playing the fife, to you recent posts asking the same sort of thing. I guess it’s not fair to suppose you’ve been blowing on it continuously the entire time!
When I first took up the (silver Boehm) flute back in high school, it took me maybe an hour or two without assistance to find a workable embouchure through the 2nd octave to allow me to start learning fingerings, hand position, etc. Everyone is different. Six weeks suggests that you’ll benefit from at least one lesson to get you going right off the bat without that kind of frustration. You obviously have the interest and motivation, and you deserve a good start to match.
I’m a great advocate for Doug’s flutes, really been enjoying the F flute I received back before Christmas.
I prefer to play my antique Metzler flute with the Hamilton headjoint mostly because of the smaller hole size, lower air requirements for the same tone quality, more fluid octave transitions, and less work required with breath and embouchure adjustment to play with (hopefully) good intonation and clear articulation.
Doug’s flutes are awesome for what they are, particularly his most recent designs. That being said, and I’m guessing it will be similar for others who have played for a long time (I’ve been playing flute since 1967, and wooden flute since around 2000), there are subtle, but significant differences between the continuous attention required to play a Tipple flute and a top-maker modern or antique wooden flute with the same level of good intonation and clear articulation.
That means that Ben Jaber or I can make a demo video with Doug’s flutes that accurately represent what an long-term wind player can do with the instrument. Someone who hasn’t been playing for a long time on a good wooden flute, may not appreciate the distinctions between the feel of the two instruments or the unconscious and continuous tiny adjustments going on to make Doug’s flute do we want it to do that we might not have to do on a high quality wood flute.
I’m not saying that the effort difference is bad or good. It is just what a wind player does to adapt one’s playing on any instrument to make it sound as good as possible. I’ve played supposedly good wooden flutes that required more adaptation to play well than Doug’s PVC models. You just do what you have to in order to make things sound good.
Doug’s flutes are an amazing value, well built, and are generally consistent. They can be played easily by new players, and played well by experienced players. That being said, they are their own animal, very distinct in their own playing requirements and idiosyncrasies as compared to a high-end wooden instrument, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing.
I clicked on the link to that thread. Oh my. The comment running through my head as I read just a few of the comments was, “I wonder how much Doug’s flutes have achieved compared to how much some of the commenters have achieved.” Actions speak so much louder than words although some of these folks’ words spoke plenty about themselves rather than Doug’s flutes.
Thanks for your comments on this thred. What I got from Eskin’s comments is that the Tipple flute is an excellent flute, in it’s own right, and GREAT for the beginner (or even intermediate player). Especially one who may or may not really have a tallent for the flute but would like to give it a go. Would you agree with that much?
All the rest of the stuff seems more like cocktail talk professional musicians would engage in and not really to germane to the beginning player. Which I think Eskin also, basically, said.
I’m not sure about the reasonably priced part of the Delrin though. Unless you are saying reasonably priced compared to African Blackwood. But upwards from $350 for a keyless D does seem a bit pricey to me. Stll, Dough adress this and on his site and does say that Delrin IS better that PCV.
I think that what Jemtheflute has said about the sound of cylindrical-bore vs. conical bore flutes is right on target, and I hope to use his explanation on the FAQ page at my website. Also, what Michael Eskin has written about my flutes, I agree with entirely. My flutes are different animals from the conical-bore flutes. They have rather larger finger holes that are not as easy to cover as the some of the smaller-hole conical flutes. Also, my larger oval embouchure coupled with a large cylindrical bore makes for air-management problems unless you have a really well-developed embouchure, although I am not that great of a flute player, and I can play it just fine. My smaller round embouchure hole is probably more manageable for beginning players. However, I receive a lot of positive comments from satisfied customers around the world. For around $100 I offer a well-designed, hand-made pvc flute that plays well, in my opinion. I am continually receiving compliments about the quality of workmanship. My competition are the Dixon conical flutes @ $200, the Casey Burns folk flute in boxwood at ~ $400, and the delrin flutes by Copely and by Rob Forbes @ ~ $400, all of which are very nice flutes. I recently purchased an antique cocuswood 4-keyed flute by Peloubet with a new 2009 headjoint made by Patrick Olwell. It plays like a dream, comfortable on the hands and requiring less air than my flutes. However, I payed $970 for it, and no way will I sell it for that amount unless I am destitute and need money for food.
