I don’t understand much about music theory so please bear with me … I know that I can happily play in D and G on my D whistles; not so happily in A!
In order to stay in session with the fiddlers who love to head off into A-land, what’s the best whistle key to get?
An A sounds obvious - but, if things are like the D/G on D whistles, I’m guessing that an E whistle would allow playing in A too? Is that right?
What do people choose?
I know that some tunes played in G on a D whistle allow you those “off the end” notes - the occasional Fs for instance - whereas you’re stuffed to go below bottom D on a D whistle and have to fluff it or go an octave up - which doesn’t often sound right for many a tune.
So, my question is which whistle is best to play tunes in A … or is the answer “work harder and learn to play tunes in A on the D whistle” ?
Sorry for my ignorance - any thoughts appreciated!
Key of A major is a good key on D whistle. You just need to half-hole (or cross-finger) G#. This will take some practice but it’s doable. Playing an E whistle in G position might work too, but I’ve never encountered an A tune I couldn’t play on the D whistle (though Devil’s Dream is tough to get up to full speed). In any event you should practice the A major scale until it’s smooth and fairly quick.
I’d try to play those “A” tunes on the D whistle, because they usually fit better.
But then there is also the problem that some “A” tunes are not really in A major, but in A Mixolydian, with a G, not a G#, so fit well to play on a D whistle. But they may have been changed by fiddlers to A major. At least I understand this is the case for some Scottish tunes, which are originally pipe tunes, i.e with a flat seventh, not sharp seventh. So you can argue with the fiddlers who prefer the sharp seventh of what is more appropiate!
I find E whistle generally more useful for Scottish-type A Major tunes because of the range. These tunes often extend below A (as you say, “off the end”), and require either octave-folding or playing in the 2nd (and into the 3rd) octave on an A whistle.
Well … yes. Most D whistles have a good cross-fingered g# in the second octave (xxoxxo or xxoxox), and a “fudgeable” G# (xxoxxx) in the first octave. Between those and half-holing, playing in A Major just takes practice, and is the more flexible solution. As Hans says, many gapped or pentatonic or mixolydian tunes will avoid the G-sharps anyway.
I carry a handy E whistle to sessions for those A tunes, but usually just end up playing them on D whistle.
a generally good post but I dont get what “the problem” is in your scheme here. One can naturally play A Mixolydian on a D whistle and with half holing of the A vent for G# one can paly A major on that whistle WHICH YOU SAID. So, having said that Hans why do you see a problem if someone mutates a A Mix into A maj?
I chose the Susato narrow bore high E, because I didn’t want to spend a lot on a specialty whistle (and the Dixon Trad wasn’t available at the time). I think it sounds pretty nice (apart from my sloppy rolls*):
This in itself is not a problem, but one might disagree with that kind of mutation and prefer the tune to stay more in character as a pipe tune, i.e. Mixolydian.
Many Scottish pipe tunes have entered the fiddle tradition and changed character, I suspect because they were written down with sharp seventh (leading note below the root), because fiddlers preferred that, or as an influence of art music. But I am not a music historian, so don’t take my word for it.
thanks for the replies - looks like the way to go is to persevere with the D whistle until I can manage those A tunes fluently … although it does present a good opportunity to treat myself to another whistle in E …well, you have to, don’t you?
As an “ear” player and, as I mentioned before, not knowing much about music theory - myxolydian, pentatonic etc don’t mean anything much to me.
Is there a good theory web site that anyone knows of where the fundamentals can be gleamed? It would be nice to have a basic music-theory understanding - if just to be able to make sense of posts on C&F
On the subject of which E whistle to get, I play a Brass Dixon D and an MK low D.
If there were MK E’s, then I’d be queueing … love that MK!
I live fairly close to Alba Whistles and so may go over and try out the Low E to start the ball rolling.
Chris, if you play those “A” tunes on a D whistle, using the A as the root note, and using all normal D fingerings with no cross fingerings or half-holing of any note, you play in A Mixolydian, i.e. a “piper’s scale”:
A B C# D E F# G A
Often the lower seventh is added, as it is a note on the chanter:
G A B C# D E F# G A
Now if those A tunes are proper A major tunes, then you need to play G# instead of G, to get a A major scale:
A B C# D E F# G# A
So on a D whistle you either cross-finger the G#: XXO XXX
or half-hole the G: XXD OOO, to get a G#, which may only be approximate.
I use D, A, and E whistles, depending on the range needed. Usually for the Mixolydian mode, I use my D. Most Scottish tunes and a large number of Old Time tunes are in the Mixolydian mode. For A major tunes, I use either the A or E whistle, depending on the range needed.
I have the Mack Hoover low E. Mine is a bit quiet for a large session (I usually play with a group and microphones), but he can make a louder one.
A-major tunes are absolutely playable on a high-D whistle using a half-holed G#. Practice, practice, practice…
On the other hand, when a set of A-major tunes comes up and I’m playing the pipes, since I don’t have a G# key and haven’t yet mastered a half-holed or cross-fingered G# reliably on my chanter, I’ll just sit them out or switch to high-D whistle. I’ve heard long strings of A-major tunes called “F the piper” sets.
It’s not a Trad E but I have a plastic low E by Dixon that is a nice whistle. The only issue was the bell note (E) being a little sharp which I fixed with a ridge of blue-tac/poster putty in the bell end. I use it playing bluegrass - bluegrass fiddlers like A too! There are bluegrass tunes in A with a Gnat; I use a D whistle for those.
I think the best way to handle A Major tunes- true Major tunes with G#s all over the place, sometimes in complex note-combinations, is to play them as if they were in the key of G, on an E whistle.
To those who advocate playing A Major tunes on a D whistle, I ask: “Do you play all of your G Major tunes on a C whistle, having mastered the halfholing of all those F#s through rigourous practice?”
hmmm… I thought not.
It’s simply common sense to play G Major tunes on a D whistle, A Major tunes on an E whistle, and so forth.
I have a Susato Low E that I use for A Major tunes. It’s a pretty good-playing whistle, well in tune after a bit of carving. If I used a Low E more often I would pony up an buy a Burke.
On the PEX make-my-own circuit, I have a nice low-ish high A whistle, on which I mostly play Ashokan Farewell, and a couple of Low Es, all on Snr Gonzato’s measurements, which fits the fingers nicely and play a lot of stuff.
Recently I’ve been practicing the Coleraine Jig on the D whistle, which means a few G#s.
The low-ish high A is the longest High whistle I’ve ever made, and I was a bit surprised that it sounded okay, and that the fingering wasn’t the least bit difficult.
Most D whistles have a good cross-fingered g# in the second octave (xxoxxo or xxoxox), and a “fudgeable” G# (xxoxxx) in the first octave. Between those and half-holing, playing in A Major just takes practice, and is the more flexible solution. As Hans says, many gapped or pentatonic or mixolydian tunes will avoid the G-sharps anyway.