The transition from whistle to flute. How long should it be?

Irish Flute
21

I got sound after a few minutes of increasingly frantic trying. I got actual notes some time later. Decent-sounding notes took a little longer. Decent-sounding notes in a phrase took a lot longer, but I was starting from scratch.

Frailty isn’t going to be a problem, unless you mean that you’re so weak you won’t be able to hold the flute up very long. (Take up weight lifting!) My Clarke whistle takes more air than my flutes. It’s not the volume of air you put into it, but whether the air stream is focused and directed properly.


I’m thinking that it will take me a life-time even.

That’s a good thing, isn’t it?

I’ve heard some people playing in a session and they don’t have a decent sound coming out the wooden flute and their phrasing is lousy. That worries me.

It shouldn’t worry you. If you already know you want to achieve better than that, then you are halfway to your goal because you have a clear picture of what you need to do.

It’s the people who think they sound great after only a month who need to worry.

22

But clearly, we don’t want to discourage such people from even making an attempt at joining a session, do we? Perhaps those people don’t necessarily think they sound great, but they are simply playing as best they can – so far. I’m one of those lifetime-musician-new-to-Irish-flute types who knows oh-so-well that he doesn’t sound too hot, but that doesn’t stop me from trying - nor should it.

All above, IMHO, YMMV.

23

Heck, no !

I’m going to be great next month for the past three years ! Can’t beat it !

:boggle:

24

Dude. I could play the first octave of a flute I built myself out of PVC within minutes It’s not rocket science. The better flutes are more difficult to play, but beginner flutes are easy as pie.

And do worry about tendonitus. If your worried, you will use correct posture and not get it.

25

Yeah, and if you get tendonitis you can always go back to the whistle. :smiling_imp:

26

Yes, I was even able to play the high D whistle with a cast on my left arm. :slight_smile:

Bob

27

What on earth did I say that had anything to do with discouraging people from joining a session???

I was trying to be encouraging. But, you know, I appreciate your criticism. I now realize how incredibly stupid I must sound to all of you lifetime experts.

So sorry to have intruded. Won’t happen again.

28

fyffer, I think Lambchop was really talking about people who do think they sound great in a very short time. I think those people might well cause a problem for other musicians.

And she was pointing out that Flauta dolce was showing enough awareness of her skills so that she was in no danger of becoming deluded in that way.

Lambchop wasn’t saying that people had to be great to join a session or that fairly new players shouldn’t join a session that welcomes new players or that anyone shouldn’t try playing with others.

You seem to have a realistic view of your playing (perhaps you are even too hard on yourself, I don’t know) and she was saying that Flauta would have that sort of view as well. It was the realistic judgment of one’s own playing that I thought Lambchop was addressing.

29

Whoa! I wasn’t trying to offend, in any way, Lambchop – really, and I’m the first to admit, I’m about as non-lifetime-expert as they come. I went to my first real session only about 6 months ago! What I was simply trying to say, and not directed at Lambchop, was to not rush to judgement about those people whom you imagine “think they sound great”. Gosh, I may even come off as one of those, though clearly, I know I don’t sound great – I just have a heck of a lot of fun just trying to sound great.

And I do agree about those clueless folk who really do think they sound great – and don’t. Unfortunately, there’s no hope for them.

I don’t want to come off as a snoot in any way, and I’m sorry if I did.

Please do offer your opinion - it’s as valid (if not more so) as my own.

And Cynth, thanks for playing the mediator. You hit it spot on.

Friends?

30

Thanks for of all your words of advice, it really helped. I went to my lesson yesterday evening and I spoke to my teacher again about this. He said I was good enough to start the flute. This is good news, good news indeed. :smiley: After a long discussion with my teacher Sean, I am going to get a good Irish wooden flute. I’ll start playing in September. I will also do lessons in the school of music.


By the way, my teacher has tinnitus at the moment. :astonished:

His advice was to get a Sam Murray flute (Galway flute maker). Any feedback about flutes that I should buy? I could be wrong but I would have thought a Hammy might be easier to play. I’m not interested in practising on a D Polymer Flutes, definitely not. I’m not interested in buying a practise flute either. Any advice is greatly appreciated! :confused:


By the way, I play a Clark Sweetone D (as well as a Killian O’Briain D’ whistle) also and I don’t find it difficult to get a good sound. It has an unusual shape to it (it’s conical).

In the meantime, I’ll keep practising on the beer bottle. :laughing:
Any tips to “prepare” myself for the new instrument are greatly appreciated. Once again, thanks!

31

Hammy has an 8 month waiting list, dunno about Sam Murray. You might want to rethink your hardware strategy to take into account the delays that handmade wooden flutes will impose.

At least an off-the-shelf polymer flute will give you something to exercise your embouchure and become accustomed to fluting while you’re waiting for a wooden flute to be made for you. Failing that, there are wooden flutes available without a waiting list (Bleazey springs to mind here in the UK and Copeland - just announced in the forum).

32

Like a lot of makers Hamilton has flutes coming up for sale: I bought one off him last year on a whim, without waiting. It’s basically a flute that was a part trade in i.e. the body came back from a player who upgraded t oa keyed flute. New head piece and new foot added and it comes (a bit) cheaper than a new one (but at the same time as good as a new one).
Hamilton is quoted here often as a flute taking some time to get used to, the first week it surprised me how easy it was to get sounds from it, it took me several months though to get the lower hand notes strong enough to play in tune.
Having played whistle and pipes for a long time(and a bit of flute during the 80s) the fingers weren’t really a problem. I hadn’t the urge though to subject any session to my playing (a trial run is imminent though).
I played Steampacket’s Wilkes during the Willie week and that was VERY easy to play compared to the Hamilton. Quite fancied that actually.

You’d be able to get a Martin Doyle on short notice without a problem, that will work quite nicely for you (I think he’s in Bray)

33

I know someone who plays a Martin Doyle flute and I’m aware that he lives in Bray (Dublin, Ireland). He plays alright.

I wonder why my teacher suggested I play on a Sam Murray D flute though. Can anyone tell me this?..

So, most hand made flutes have waiting lists…hmmm!

34

I could tell your teacher was a wise individual.

IMO, Sam Murray or Doyle. Hamiltons are stiffer in the low notes and take a little while to get to know. Murrays are a joy to play right out of the box.
(it is especially good if your teacher knows Sam)

As far as advice for preparing … just keep playing your whistle as well as you can!

BTW, Lambie, I thought your statement was hilarious. It is the ones who think they’re great right away you have to watch out for … see the Session Etiquette thread plus any American business consultancy for proof!

(I didn’t read fyffer’s original response as a slam, FWIW.)

(aren’t we opinionated in our old age? :laughing:)

(speaking of a session-wrecker … i’ll go away now)

35

Well, a Murray flute sounds very good and is easy to play! If you value this measurement, many of the players on the WFO CD’s use them.

Speaking of Murrays, a friend of mine has one that’s between 8-10 years old. She claims it was acquired for around $400 or so. (Yes, I grew envious at that). Anyway, has Sam changed his flutes tremendously over the years?

36

A new keyless is still only between $700 & $800, I think. That’s part of why they’re so popular over there – great, affordable flutes made right in the neighborhood.

I don’t know about the changes … my keyless is about three years old and my keyed is about 8 or 9 and there’s not too much difference there … but each is a super-nice flute in its own right. Different characters, but not wildly so … I love the heck out of them, and just they’re too much fun to play!

I would suspect Fluta Dolce might even be able to find one secondhand eventually?

Probably worth talking to your teacher about, F.D.!

37

How’s the keywork on your keyed Murray, Cathy?

38

TinTin,

All but one of mine are rubber-banded right now as I try to gather the funds to make the repairs (this is that boxwood ebay Murray), so I can’t tell you too much about their functionality – the short F key works great, though! :slight_smile: Also, I’m still waiting for the long F and Eb keys, so I can’t tell you what those look like.

But here’s an attempt to describe the long C, Bb, G# and short F …

The keys seem to be sterling (or perhaps even pewter?; they’re tarnished kind of a gunmetal grey so it’s hard to tell) and are thus very thin and soft; they’re also quite small. Kind of pretty, delicate-looking things, actually; the touches are very petite and even the saltspoons seem small compared to, say, an Olwell. It looks very period. (What period I’m not sure, but there’s an antique feel to them. And again, they’re – well, for lack of a better word, really pretty. One of the touches is even sort of scalloped into a nifty shape.)

Compared to the keywork on, say, my McGee, they’re much more delicate; I handle them with care. But the McGee is just a big horse of a flute, and has the stout keywork to match. (Terry builds 'em to last – thank you, Terry!)

I’d love to hear some other input from people who’ve had experience with some of the antique keyed flutes; I’m kind of thinking Sam followed that lead in making this one. David, do you have any thoughts?

But Lord, it’s a nice-playing little flute. Nimble and tight in the turns, and wonderfully in tune, even the keyed notes. Can’t tell you much about responsiveness of the keys because of the rubber bands, but again, the short F is great. :laughing:

39

If you get tendonitis in your head then there is something wrong :laughing:

Sorry ciara, only joking. see you soon in cobblestones.

40

I’m starting to get tendonitis at the base of the neck from playing while forumizing. . .doing it now in fact. Is that close enough to count?