Blatantly biased opinions (or not) wanted

Irish Flute
1

O’k…so I’m pathetically hooked on this little wooden flute. I’ve had my Copley for about 7 weeks now. I’ve played it every day, and I feel like I’m learning quickly having come from a Boehm flute background. So now I’ve got the itch to begin trying other flutes, because, well…because I like to try new instruments, especially flutes, and, like many of you, I’ll probably own several at some point. I may end up buying a few, and maybe selling a few, and will ultimately keep a few of my favorites. How many, I’m not sure, but probably less than I might covet, and more than my wife would think is necessary.

I’ve been listening to a lot of the music on the Wooden Flute Obsession CD’s, and I very much like the sound of the Murray, Olwell, and Grinter. I’m looking for a flute I can push a bit harder, especially down low, that is capable of strong reedy tone. I play mostly by myself and may play with some accompaniment eventually..guitar, piano, bodhran. I think I’d jump at a Murray right now if I could find one available, and I’m considering ordering a keyless Olwell which has a year waiting period. The Grinter is pricey for a keyless model at $1846 US and a 15 month waiting period.

So if you own or have played a Murray, Olwell, or Grinter, I’d love to hear about your singular or comparative experience. I understand that there are many, many variables involving the musician etc. when it comes to discussing flutes; I would just like to know what your experience has been, whatever that may be, regarding similarities and differences etc. If there are other flutes that you feel compare well, I welcome your comments about them too.

Lastly, I am considering a Forbes or, perhaps, a Cochran Delrin as a “take anywhere” flute. So if you have experience with both or either of these flutes, I’d be interested in your impressions as well.

Much appreciation in advance,

2

Just over two months?

You going to a fire or something?

You should be able to get a good honk off of your Copley.

I’ll go out on a limb here and say that you can’t its not the flute.


If you just can’t stand it just buy the Olwell and be done with it. That will be more than enough flute for you for some time.

3

Speaking of flutes one could even play in a shower (talk about anywhere)…

I got one of Rob Forbes’ Delrin flutes several months ago, and I’m sure it’s worth every penny I paid for it.

I’d like to have one of these very same flutes in blackwood, please, for which I’d be glad to double the money!

Hello, Mr. Forbes?

4

I knew this was coming before I posted the topic.

Yep, just over two months, and I can add 7 years of Boehm flute, and many years with other musical instruments. I think there is some carry over. Still, you’re right, I’m a newb to the Irish flute. That said, I’ve been listening carefully to the various flutes used in the Wooden Flute Obsession compilation, and these were the flutes that I particularly liked. And, even as a newb, I do believe I can here a tonal difference between the Murray and the Olwell. Both wonderful, but the Olwell seems, to my ear, have a tonal niche of its own.

Off to a fire? Not really, I like playing different models of flutes and other instruments, and I can appreciate some of the qualitative differences. For example, I began playing the didgeridoo a little over a year ago. I now have 4 authentic Aboriginal didges, 5 made by various master crafters, and two I made myself. I play all of them off and on, and they’re all different in their own way - be it key, wood, tone, backpressure, artwork, or other qualities. I’ve reached the point in my life where I can enjoy what I choose to enjoy within reason.

The intent of this thread wasn’t meant to be about what the Copley can or can’t do. It’s a wonderful flute, surely capable of more honk than I can coax from it. As I get better, it’ll sound better. That’s a given.

I probably will get on Pat’s waiting list. A year down the road, it will be a great treat when it arrives. In the meantime, I might get a nice Delrin model to throw in the backpack or take in a kayak. Who knows, maybe I’ll like it better than wood; I’ve never played one before.

Bottom line, I look forward to trying many flutes and owning a few, and I think its all good.

5

OK, so, perhaps there could be some truth to the saying that there is no such thing as having too many flutes.

:wink:

6

Hi Bob-
I wish I had the experience of playing an Olwell, Murray, and Grinter. I have heard an Olwell and Grinter played a few feet from where I stood though. The Olwell was a keyless Pratten in blackwood, while the Grinter was a Rudall model in cocus. Both were exceptionally sounding flutes. They were loud, responsive, and had solid, hard Ds. Most of that had to do with the players though, I’m sure, as one was Mr. Ochs and the other Mr. Crawford. I was able to get my hands on the Olwell, and one thing that amazed me was how light it was for a Pratten model. Now I know it was keyless, but that’s all I ever handled. I don’t think you can go wrong with any of them.

I can share my thoughts about Burns’s flutes though. He makes amazing flutes with a reedy sound. They are quite loud compared to other flutes I’ve heard and played. His flutes are responsive, well-made, and just sound wonderful. Many people will give differing opinions about different makers-if they’ve played them, definitely listen to them. But I don’t think people’s opinions can replace you getting your hands on them.

~Sean

7

There’s no such thing as a flute that just anyone can push harder, especially down low. Many people sing the praises of the bottom end of the Copley. That wasn’t my experience; of all the flutes I’ve played, the Copley was the one I found the most difficult at the bottom. Followed by the Hammy, a flute that many many people find has a strong bottom. It wasn’t the flutes, it was me.

That said, if you’re having trouble with the bottom end of the Copley, you might want to go to a Rudall-type flute, so any of those you’ve mentioned (assuming a small- or medium-holed Olwell) would fit the bill. I haven’t had the pleasure of playing a Murray, but have owned a Grinter and both small- and medium-holed Olwells. They’re all great flutes. I was put off by the weight of the Grinter (it was blackwood, lined head), as was my wife, a lifelong silver-flute player. I find the Olwells to be about the easiest-playing flutes I’ve tried, possibly outside of the Bleazey. In addition to the ease of playing, the medium-holed (aka Nicholson) has an incredibly versatile tone palette. Also, to give you a point of reference, my wife loves the Olwell Nicholson and is on the waiting for a keyed copy of it.

8

I’d try out as many flutes as you possibly can for the next several months. No need to rush.


I love my Murray for its upsides.

  1. Of course it sounds/plays good, but that’s to be expected. I’d have been happy with an Olwell I’m sure too.
  2. It’s extremely light, slender, and ergonomically comfortable. My M & E, while a good sounding flute, created wrist soreness issues that do not exist with the Murray, even though is has . . .
  3. Keys. Mine look badass, which is of course the most important factor in choosing a flute. There’s some strange tarnish on them caused by my skin and/or the metal. In any case, the flute looks antique, which is swell.
  4. Price. I got mine with keys (and lefty) for less than $2k US. But that was 1.5 years ago before the exchange rates were what they are now. Not sure what you’d need to pay today.

Downsides:

  1. Keys. . . they work well enough but, to be honest, Copley’s blow them away from a usability standpoint, and some of the tuning needs to be worked on. I am slowly getting used to them though, and now have some reliable Fnat and G# tunes in the repertoire. I managed to get in some Bb’s on Christmas Carols:)

It’s really only the Cnatural key that’s noticeably flat, and I need to get off my rear and get it looked at. That’s the only real downside to the flute.

9

off topic for a moment… as a guitar player of some forty odd years, i can state unequivocally it is possible to own enough guitars, but it is impossible to own too many guitars. i am learning the same is true of flutes… i wonder… hw many is enough?

back to the topic at hand…

be well,

jim

10

Okay Bob, since you asked:

Having played all the flutes you’ve mentioned and then some, there’s not much comparing to be done with regards to how they play and sound. They will all play somewhat different from one another, and they will all sound like you. You will love one, then prefer another. You will rave about the next flute, until you get the next, which seems even better, or perhaps worse, then you will move on once again, only to decide that perhaps #2 was the best ever, until someone here rants about a new maker that has popped up and then you’ll have to have that maker’s flute as well.

Fun as this all sounds, it will hamper your playing as you constantly try to adapt your embouchure to often radically different embouchure cuts. Worse still, you intonation will constantly suffer because each maker makes different scale compromise choices, so each flute you own will require somewhat different lipping/breath pressure/rolling, etc. to play in tune.

Most of us have been through this process, so I’m not ragging on you, just saying that in the end, people who want to enjoy playing the music, rather than just talking about it, tend to find that sticking with one good flute while mastering the music, delivers more satisfaction than spending one’s time flute shopping and going through instruments like cordwood.

Of course I know nothing I’ve just said will change one thing with regards to how you proceed, but at least one day I’ll be able to say “I told you so.”
:smiling_imp:

In all fairness, others told me the same thing, and it took me a while to wise up.


Have fun,

Loren

11

Number of flutes? OK, that’s one thing.

Number of guitars? OK, that’s another.

However, in a similar sense, how many pianos could be enough?

:wink:

12

All in all, nicely said, Loren!

13

Have you compared your Murray to another Murray? By that I mean does your Cnat vary from other Murrays? When I owned both Olwell and Murray flutes at the same time, one of the first things I noticed was that Pat and Sam made VERY different scale choices with regards to the treatment of C#/Cnat.

Are you using Sam’s suggested fingering for the Cnat? Might be that he intended certain fingers up/down when the key is being used. I don’t remember off hand if I did anything different on my Murray for that note, but then that’s simple system flutes for ya, I just expect 'em all to behave differently at this point, lol!

Loren

14

I’ll bite…I’ve had a chance to try an Olwell Pratten, a Murray, and a Grinter within the last year (not side-by-side). I’ve been playing a Copley for four years (following 15 years of Boehm flute playing). I’m very happy with my Copley and find it to compare favorably to the other three makes listed. I should also say that it took me over two years to start getting where I wanted to be, tonally, on it–and to be able to push the low notes. (Still not there, of course, but now I’m pretty happy with my tone…most days.) It’s simply a very different animal from the Boehm flute and takes time to learn and adjust to.
On to the others: in the case of the Grinter, suffice it to say, if I had the cash, I’d order one. The narrower bore (which the Murray has, too) gives wonderful resistance and responsiveness, and it has a great range of tone color and economy of air.
I’m not entirely sure how to describe the Murray–very distinctive, perhaps the most individualistic flute I’ve tried. Very lively. When I played one, it somehow made sense why Harry Bradley would play one, given his sound and style.
The Olwell I tried was very easy to play, naturally lent itself to a reedy tone, and was very easy to push in the low octave. The low D was especially firm and solid. Like the Copley, it has a large bore, and so the two bear some general similarities.
All very fine flutes, all feel quite distinctive, all have certain tonal leanings, but in the end I’m sure I just sound like myself, although I also think some of the flutes suit me better than others.

By the way, I should add that I had the opportunity to try a number of Olwell flutes five or six years ago at Patrick’s shop. This was when I was just beginning to play Irish music, but my my Boehm flute playing was at its peak. I sounded awful on the various (and wonderful) new and antique flutes Patrick let me try. On the other hand, I sounded good on the Olwell I played a couple months ago. In between, of course, I’ve been playing the heck out of my Copley.

15

As one of the other forum members shared with me recently, Sean, one of the problems in choosing an Irish flute is finding a way to get your hands on the ones you’d like to try. And, once you do decide, you can only hope that what you think you want now is what will want 1 to 7 years from now. It’s a rather unique process, I’d say.

16

That could very well be a factor for me as well, Charlie. I know that the Irish flute needs a tighter, more focused embouchure, in general, than the Boehm flute to obtain that really dry, reedy sound. My embouchure will improve immensely with time, but I think it is “decent” now. I’d like to try some other flutes to see how the fit is for me currently. Many folks would advise me to slow down and give it some time, but at my age and contradictory to the laws of physics, time seems to be moving a little quicker each year. So now seems to be the right time for me. Besides, Doc is always saying, “Come and get 'em.” :smiley:

17

Great post, Loren, spoken with a ton of wisdom.

Much appreciated,

18

Thanks for your whole, informative post, Tintin. I think your sentence above sums it up nicely for me, I’d like to play around and find out what suits me best, perhaps for now and for hedging a bet on the future.

19

Interesting how you posted this subject just 6 hours ago and already have a dozen replies. I think we all egg each other on to look at, consider, drool over, fantasize about all the great flutes out there. I know it’s true for me. I tried many flutes over the last couple of months and had a difficult time committing to one. I finally did buy a Cochran delrin Rudall/Pratten hybrid. My budget was the $500 range. (By the way, I did try a blackwood, slideless Copley and had difficulty with the low D as well; also, not having a slide worried me because I find that playing with others in different conditions demands a flute that has a wide range of intonation adjustment.) I really like the Cochran, but like all other flutes I’ve played and tried, it doesn’t play perfectly right out of the box. Each flute, I believe, has its own idiosyncracies that take a long time to figure out. I would hope that the more expensive flutes have fewer “chinks” and are easier over time to play. But having not played one (Grinter, Murray, Olwell), I can’t say. I love John Wynne’s playing and know he plays a Murray, so I dream about getting one. I still look almost everyday on Doc Jone’s site and wonder about all the different McGee’s, etc. and how I’d sound on them. I think this overt, addictive coveting is something of a C&F disorder.

That said, my plan is to stick with the Cochran for a while, hopefully years. I find it an excellent flute in many ways–it honks on the low notes, has great responsiveness and a wide range of timbres. All my clips at the site in my signature below are played on that Cochran. I think the mic mutes some of the edge of the tone, but it’s a fair representation of the flute. The best tracks that may give an idea of the different timbres of the flute are Flowers of E and Torn Jacket, one darker, the other brighter.

Cheers.

Jason

20

My Copley is the slideless model. I wonder if the having the tuning slide would have the effect of focusing the edge on the lowest notes? I can get a nice rich tone which is very appealing in itself, but I haven’t been able to get that dry bark. I’m sure very experienced players could get it, but surely different flutes vary in their ease in obtaining that tone…wouldn’t they?

Regarding the flute coveting disorder, I think I will write to the American Psychological Association and have them add it to Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. This disorder has a Pavlovian response: any reference to a new flute elicits immediate coveting and drooling.