Hello all,
I’ve only a few months experience playing guitar, and I like DADGAD tuning. Currently I play a folk-sized, thinner bodied cheapy, that plays well when strummed with a light touch. It seems to have that transparent quality to the notes, if that’s the right term. When I strum a chord, I hear fairly good note separation. It’s also strong in the treble range. I’m curious about people’s thoughts about whether this sort of quality is generally desired in a tuning like DADGAD, where chords may differ only by one note. Or is a boomier, thick-chord sounding guitar is still OK for this kind of tuning.
The subtext here is that I’m thinking of getting a new guitar, and I’m wondering about Dreadnought vs.shallow body, etc.
I could post this on some guitar forum, but I wanted to know from folks here who tend to play in sessions, and who know guitar well in this tradition. No interest in fingerstyle or flatpicking; strictly a rhythm thing for now
I’ll play before I buy, but if anyone has any thoughts on this I’d appreciate it.
Mike
Um. Don’t “session guys” hang out here too? If not, what kind of guys do hang out here? Knitting guys? Philately guys? My god, have I been on the wrong forum all this time?
Mike, I like dreadnoughts for rhythm. Smaller-bodied instruments generally don’t have the lower-end punch I like. My 25-year-old Guild D35 isn’t the best machine for fingerstyle, but it’s ideal for the style of accompaniment I play.
But your tastes are your own. Play a bunch of guitars and see what you like.
Didn’t mean to insult anyone Ro3b. I just meant that questions like this will get a ton of pretty well reasoned answers on that site, as it is read by people who are interested primarily in Irish music, which happens primarily in sessions. Sorry if I stepped on someone’s toes.
Thanks guys.
I read and have learned lots from reading the mustard board and have posted the odd thing. Thesession.org is like the limbic portion of my Traditional Music mind. Rash, raw, polarized. On this board I can ask a guitar question of people who presumably play flute/whistle/pipes, etc.
To my thinking, I’ll get perhaps more common perspective from folks with way more experience than me with stringed instruments.
That, and I’m reluctant to start another guitar thread on thesession.
I see a lot of people at session playing OM-sized and acoustic electric guitars with a light pick and it sounds great. I also see a lot of people in jams with these Jumbos as Dreadnoughts just cranking away, so much that the guitar is all that you hear. But I agree, that extra bit more bass is nice amongst more trebly melody instruments, and if I play with the appropriate discretion there’s little risk of overpowering the tunes.
A Lowden or D-28 would certainly be great; my budget will only allow me to seek a much cheaper clone
Mike
What kind of budget do you have to work with? A Seagull would be a good relatively inexpensive choice or a Breedlove Atlas series with a cedar top if you can go for $800-$900 or so. Best to play as many guitars as you can to see what you like and what you don’t.
I wouldn’t expect a lot of helpful advice about guitar purchases on the session.org.
My budget would just allow a Seagull (they come up for sale used a lot around here), or something in the family of the intermediate level Yamahas/Washburn/Cort and other imports.
One of Larrivee’s shops is in Vancouver, and people seem to sell their Seagull/S&P guitars when they trade up to a Larrivee, to the good fortune of punters like me.
Mike
I double-dawg agree with the Seagull, although I would highly recommend saving some extra pennies for a good set-up.
If you feel like saving up a bit more or are planning ahead for an eventual step-up, start taking a look around for used (or possibly new) Martin D-15s. Or even the 000-15 or OM-15. When I was shopping for a step-up from my Sigma D-28 clone, the D-15 blew away a lot of the competition in the $700-$1000 price range. I’ve seen some go online for as low as $400.
hi Mike
pulled this from a post I made over on Celtic Guitar Talk.
You need to go there if DADGAD and similar tunings are for you loadza stuff.
The sound is down to what YOU, like to hear when YOU play your music and off course how deep your pocket is, so try well before you buy.
here’s the post
I have played and repaired all levels of acoustic guitars and have come to the conclusion that its more to do with your style / feel and the proportions of the whole (guitar) It depends on what “feels right” to you. I remember playing Tony McManus’s Kelday 000 and in my customary way assessing the instrument and thinking it was one of the best proportioned guitars I have had in my hands. To me the neck / fingerboard - string spacing (both width and length) were an extension of my hands therefore completely natural - no longer an obstacle.
The downside for me was the body size, it was to small. I tend to “mould” my body to the instrument (playing seated) and being six feet with arms like an orangatang (sp) the guitar body did’nt fit my v/bad posture. This is almost classical string layout and Tony managed full out finger style and flat picking to the highest level in DADGAD and other “Celtic” tunings
My main two instruments are an original George Lowden “L” (his biggest) that became his “O” model cedar / rosewood it is a fully mature instrument (20 years old) and is is beautifully proportioned. It is an out and out finger picking guitar and not for strumming, way to much overtones (harmonic content )/ sustain. My other giging guitar is a Dana Bourgeois JOM - a dreadnought depth OM spruce/rosewood 8 years old and just starting to open up with that american “woody” tone as opposed to the Lowden’s more european “string” tone. Both of these guitars are played finger picking style with a thumb pick and with hands more suited to being a blacksmith I drive these guitars in single string playing as hard as any flat picker.
you know I think this kinda debate, which whisky compliments Haggis, Aberdeen Angus, Venison or Salmon” - just get on with it or your meal might get cold - no offence.
yours unreg
I find that an advantage of DADGAD over common tuning in trad music is the bass D. Listening to musicians who accompany ITM with standard tuning, I feel they’re missing something. Even Dropped D would be an improvement.
The main advantage of DADGAD, though, is being able to play melody.
As far as guitars go, I play Ovation deep-bodies both 6 and 12 string, both in DADGAD and both with medium gauge Martin strings.
I like my Gibson Bell Brass Dobro with the gator and swamp etched in the back. It has lots of punch, particularly in the lower end. DADGAD is my favorite tuning, though you’re likely to find a brass slide on my pinky when I’m playing it.
I would definitely go for a Jumbo Lowden if you can. I’ve been playing DADGAD for a while on different guitars and the Lowdens are usually among the best
Hi Mike. Definately the Seagull is going to be the best bang for the buck. However, if they are still out of your price range, don’t fret (punn intended) as Art and Lutherie is made by the same company that makes Seagull (Lasido aka Godin). For around $200 USD you can get a very nice NEW guitar. I have three of them; a dreadnaught, a folk size (similar to a mid sized body), and a parlor size (great fo travel and just sitting around anywhere). The dreadnaught will work well for the DADGAD tuning as well as just about any tuning, which is what I use it for, the folk size is great for fingerstyle and more single note lines as the notes really jump out, and the parlor size is, well, just fun! If they made a Jumbo I would for sure get one.
Thanks for all of the wisdom, everyone. I still haven’t picked something else up, but I’ll keep my ear out for the best dreadnought I can afford. Hopefully a Seagull. More and more I can see how the folk sized, shallower bodied guitar that I currently play is nicely suited to fingerpicking, but is a bit anemic for strumming.
Cheers, Mike
Why not hold out for a used Larrivee L-03 or D-03? They are far nicer than the Seagulls (both in workmanship and tone) and you’ll save yourself the need for future upgrading. Larry’s seem to be some of the best bang for the buck right now.
Another option would be to go with a Blueridge guitar. Their low and mid-priced guitars are hard to beat for the money, and to my ear they just crush the Seagull guitars. I bought a nice Blueridge a couple of years ago for $350. with a very nice archtop hardcase. Very nice sounding and playing guitar, even at twice the price.
Hi Loren,
Yes a used Larrivee would be wonderful. A few of the folks I play with play them, and they seem to be instruments to fall into a certain kind of love with. At the moment and for the foreseeable future, it’s a matter of absolute dollars available for another instrument purchase, so I have to stay in the shallow end when it comes to guitar purchase. What I’m hoping to get is a “good enough” sounding guitar. Seems to me that (musicality aside) unlike the flute, the tone of a guitar is largely up to the guitar. I’ve heard some guitars that sound like boxes with strings, some that were sublime, and most just sound nice if played well. When I think of upgrading instruments, the only thing that comes to mind for me would be adding a G# and Fnat keys to my flute. And the cost of those keys would buy me a nice guitar!
I’ve only seen Blueridge guitars around here in one shop, and the prices started around $650 CDN. I recall it was an auditorium sized instrument. Looked really nice. I’ve never played one, though. Can you recommend a specific dealer of these? I know that giannaviolins stocks them, but they seem to sell the higher end models IIRC.
Best, Mike
Yes, I agree that it’s important to find a decent sounding guitar, and many of the newer guitars do sound pretty lame these days.
I certainly understand about having to work within a certain budget. Check out the BR and BG 40 and 60 if you’re looking for something new. The 40’s can be had for under $400. new. Not sure where there are dealers in your area, you’d have to check for blueridge dealer locations on the saga music website, just google it.
Honestly though, I’m always thinking used when it comes to guitars, because that’s where the deals are. Check out ebay, just search “Blueridge Guitar” If you want a Dred, then look at the BR and BG-40, 60, 140, and perhaps 160. I prefer OM/000 sizes, which would be the BR-43, 63/73, 143, 163/183 etc.
The 100’s and up are all solid, the lower lines have a solid top with laminated backs and sides. Even so, the lower priced laminated b&s models sound surprisingly good.
