The Green Fields of Canada

[Nanohedron]

@Redwolf

The person I learned the song from says that by “corn cob” they actually mean any kind of grain in the ear (“corn” meaning “grain” just about anywhere but in the Americas). So it’s not precisely “maize” that they’re speaking about.

Yes, I’ve heard that argument, too. I don’t buy it.

[djm]

@Redwolf

Yes, it’s four syllables, but syllable three is a schwa, and the emphasis is on the second syllable. The only way to pronounce it anywhere near correctly in the context of the song and also to make it scan is to swallow that schwa’d syllable.

Sorry, but I’d have to disagree. To squoosh it into three syllables from four you’d do better to concatenate the first syllable: Ss’kachewan. More appropriately, and more fitting with the sean-nós tradition with its strong emphasis on proper pronunciation, would be to modify the tune to fit in all four syllables.

djm

[Redwolf]

@djm

@Redwolf

Yes, it’s four syllables, but syllable three is a schwa, and the emphasis is on the second syllable. The only way to pronounce it anywhere near correctly in the context of the song and also to make it scan is to swallow that schwa’d syllable.

Sorry, but I’d have to disagree. To squoosh it into three syllables from four you’d do better to concatenate the first syllable: Ss’kachewan. More appropriately, and more fitting with the sean-nós tradition with its strong emphasis on proper pronunciation, would be to modify the tune to fit in all four syllables.

djm

It’s not a sean-nós song. By definition, sean-nós songs are sung in Irish.

In any case, Irish singing frequently drops or blends syllables, which is why it’s often difficult even for good Irish speakers to pick out all the words in a song at the first go. “Correct” pronunciation really isn’t at issue…it’s all about ornamentation and interpretation.

Redwolf

[Nanohedron]

@Nanohedron

@Redwolf

The person I learned the song from says that by “corn cob” they actually mean any kind of grain in the ear (“corn” meaning “grain” just about anywhere but in the Americas). So it’s not precisely “maize” that they’re speaking about.

Yes, I’ve heard that argument, too. I don’t buy it.

And of course you know I was joking. Quoting Tommy Martin, “Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.”

[djm]

@Redwolf

“Correct” pronunciation really isn’t at issue…it’s all about ornamentation and interpretation.

I can easily quote you as many “expert” opinions that totally disagree. My many point is that it is better to scrunch the first syllable if you want the word Saskatchewan to be recognizable.

djm

[s1m0n]

@Redwolf

It’s not a sean-nós song. By definition, sean-nós songs are sung in Irish.

The distinction between languages (vs dialects) is often political rather that linguistic.

Scots and Irish gaelic are more alike–as languages–than lowland scots and english.

[Redwolf]

@s1m0n

@Redwolf

It’s not a sean-nós song. By definition, sean-nós songs are sung in Irish.

The distinction between languages (vs dialects) is often political rather that linguistic.

Scots and Irish gaelic are more alike–as languages–than lowland scots and english.

Not sure how that pertains, as the song we’re discussing is in English.

Yes, Scottish Gaelic and Irish are very closely related, but, by definition, an Irish song is not sean-nós if it’s sung in English (or Lallans, or any other language).

Redwolf

[Roger_O_Keeffe]

Beg to differ, Redwolf.

Lots of people sing songs in English “ar an sean-nós”, i.e. in the old style or way.

An example that I’m listening to a lot these days is Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh singing “The Emigrant’s Farewell”: the phrasing and ornementation are unambiguously sean-nós, even if the slight vibrato probably betrays a more modern or professional influence.

There isn’t a sample of that particular song on her website http://www.muireann.ie/shop.htm, but - unashamed plug from a well-meaning friend and admirer - you can order a copy for only €17 via the website.

[s1m0n]

@Roger O'Keeffe

Beg to differ, Redwolf.

Lots of people sing songs in English “ar an sean-nós”, i.e. in the old style or way.

Or sing in two languages, like Joe Heaney. He’s doing the same thing whether he sings in his first language or his second.