The more I listen to the crowing of a reed the more I realise that there is an awlful lot going on in the note. Does anyone know of any devise like a tuner that will tell you the other notes going on in the crow .I,m sure it would be a great help if you could analyse the structure of the note !!
Also what are the adverage crowing pitches of reeds of other pitches like flat chanters and concert pitch regs !!
Thanks
RORY
PS would the title be a good name for a tune ??
If you have a good mic hooked up to your PC for recording, you can use sound sample analysis software to break down the harmonic structure. Spectrogram is an example of this type of software.
My pipemaker uses his tuner to tell him when a good strong crow is coming back in G (for a D reed) to tell if it is in tune or not.
djm
It sounds like it could be a useful tool,it would be interesting to see the difference in harmonic structure of a really good reed and a not so good reed !! and what effect scraping different parts of the scrape has on the harmonic structure !!
RORY
I use a Korg GT-12 tuner for getting the crow right on the concert reeds, there is a lot more to it than getting a good crow with reedmakings.
Stressful stuff, the secret is in the cane. all the best. 
I use a Korg GT-12 tuner for getting the crow right on the concert reeds, there is a lot more to it than getting a good crow with reedmakings.
Stressful stuff, the secret is in the cane. all the best.
Discuss.
uhhh…there’s these things called the hammer, anvil + stirrup…
not trying to be smart@ssed;
but this would a very good critical listening /ear-training exercise.
Listen to the quality of the crow on a good reed, then compare to one of a 2nd-tier one. Analyse.
Is the difference audible?
If so, in what way?
More complex? More of a ‘pure’ (sine) tone?
Darker? Brighter? Rounder? Thinner? Thicker?
Is there any discernable tone sounding?
Is there a discernable interval sounding?
At what point do both reeds shutoff?
Am I “drawing or sucking” when inhaling? (straight line, that)
and indeed…
what outcome does this ‘good crow’ have in relation to obtaining the desired effect on said reed in chanter? There’s no shortcut, only experience tells when something’s unworkable.
and about plugging something electronic in, sure,there’s a time + place for that…but
why waste computing time on a good old fashioned FFT spectral analysis, when we can learn to differentiate timbres fast and cheap? The ear is a miraculuous thing. (unlike my spelling) 
I like Quinn’s comment that it’s more like a “seagull.” Wooff wrote that the high note in a crow (when you suck hardest) should be the chanter’s high A. Correct me if I’m remembering that wrong.
You have good crows and then a bunch of sickly ones that will never get off the ground. About 10 years ago a Maine piper wrote an article about spectrographs, and the curious phenomenon where a reed with a really good crow wouldn’t play in a chanter anyway. Peter Flynn I think the author’s name was. That was in the Pipers’ Review.
Sometimes I’ll have a reed with a stiff crow that I’ll think won’t play well, but it does anyway. Weird how that works.
Good stuff ChasR and Kevin. It is that it is an ephemera of a thing, this (also initial) voice of a thing of parts.
As well as a good (1st quality of a reed) vs a not so good a reed “a 2nd quality a reed”, it is also a good reed that as suddenly ‘lost’ it’s - life.
I do use a tuner to help reach the pitch of the crow (or seagull) I seek, but it is all sorts of other things I can only, mostly guess at the minute, to get a working reed, or a reed working. That is I am not yet sure how to guage and adjust at any given point a scraping process, to get it good, or otherwise indifferent.
I attended a class with Benedict K a while back. In the time given he produced a reed I would have died for. Finishing up, he said something like, “Yes, with a little more work, and time, it may be fit to play”. He could hear things beyond my ken, regretably still true today.
Practice, practice, listen, listen, record, record, learn, learn.
Pipewort, is there no one near you who you can call on to help you with your reedmaking skills?, if not, its a case of practice dos make perfect.
all the best.
The way I understand it ,is that a tuner only tells you the pitch of the fundamental , but I would think all the other notes in the crow are probably what make the difference between a good reed and a bad one . So I thought if you could accurately analyse the other notes it would be a step in the right direction.
I know BK can probably do this by ear ,but it has taken a career in piano tuning and thirty years experience to get there !!
I dont want to wait thirty years ,I want to make good reeds NOW!!!
RORY
[quote=“stew”]I use a Korg GT-12 tuner for getting the crow right on the concert reeds, there is a lot more to it than getting a good crow with reedmakings.
Stressful stuff, the secret is in the cane. all the best. 8)[/quote]
Please could you explain further, there are those on the forum who might benefit from this information.
If it sounds something like this you know you are heading in the right direction:
“SQWAUKAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEK”
or in some cases for a better back d and consistent hard D:
“SQWAUKAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEK”
PD 
Good use of the technical vernacular Patrick!
Neil
Trouble is all my reeds so far have either gone, Caa-Caa,Caa-Caa or Towit-Towoo. So at this stage I,m going Cockoo !!!
RORY
I have been able to keep my pipes playing, with new reeds as needed.
But in getting them to crow, my uncertainty is that BK, for instance, would most likely bin them all, or if not, would know exactly what and where to tweak the beast, to get them to play at their VERY best.
I feel another reed workshop coming on; and it was one or more of those that led to success in producing playable reeds.
In the meantime this week, another batch is on the nails getting ready for scraping, to replace the last home made reed that is loosing the juice after six months of regular playing.
I keep records - but how do you define, and compute, and then record, a crow, balanced with pressure? And, how do you make a reed that lasts YEARS!
Good fun what, but I would rather be playing, even though I enjoy the micro-carpentry for it’s own sake. It’s difficulty is a part of not having to make them very often. The scribbles of notes, so clear at the time, a jumble of nonsense months later. I have ammended those too; but remembering the tone and colours of the crow - and how I got it…?
Practice, practice.
Pwt