Yes…one Halloween “track” (if you will) was concerned with frightening away and/or confusing the spirits (not goblins, but spirits of the departed), which is why the lanterns, costumes, etc.
Redwolf
On 2002-10-31 22:42, MandoPaul wrote:
On 2002-10-31 09:35, Martin Milner wrote:
Halloween is much bigger in the USA than in the UK, maybe because we stopped burning witches a bit sooner (and took to electing them Prime Minister instead), or whatever.We don’t burn them anymore either. Now we give them really bad TV shows…
Isn’t St. Stephens day somewhat similar, going around in costume asking for money to bury a wren?
I’ll likely be told I’m wrong, but not too many years ago an “expert” on Salem said in an interview on television that witches were never burned there. Shucks, ruin a great childhood fantasy!
When I was a kid the tricks were played on the night before Halloween, then known as Mischief Night. And among all the previously mentioned pranks was one utterly disgusting practice of wrapping “poop” (this is a family site! 
) in newspaper and setting it on fire on a person’s doorstep, ringin their bell, and running…
~Larry
On 2002-10-31 22:42 MandoPaul wrote:
Isn’t St. Stephens day somewhat similar, going around in costume asking for money to bury a wren?
That’s right ~ there is such a tradition in Ireland anyhow. Not sure if it still exists. Here is the verse that they recite ~ I’ve never heard anyone reciting the whole thing, maybe just the first verse and chorus ~
The wren, the wren, the king of all birds,
St. Stephen’s Day was caught in the furze,
Although he was little his honour was great,
Jump up me lads and give him a treat.
Chorus:
Up with the kettle and down with the pan,
And give us a penny to bury the wren.
As I was going to Killenaule,
I met a wren upon the wall.
I took me stick and knocked him down,
And brought him in to Carrick Town.
Chorus:
Droolin, Droolin, where’s your nest?
Tis in the bush that I love best
In the tree the holly tree,
Where all the boys do follow me.
Chorus:
We followed the wren three miles or more,
Three mile or more three miles or more.
We followed the wren three miles or more,
At six o’clock in the morning.
Chorus:
I have a little box under me arm,
Under me arm under me arm.
I have a little box under me arm,
A penny or tuppence would do it no harm.
Chorus:
\
Cheers
Gerry
Think before you Think before you Talk!
[ This Message was edited by: WhistlingGypsy on 2002-11-01 08:26 ]
I was on my university campus yesterday and overheard the conversation of a rambunctious group of undergraduates, the female members of which were loudly maintaining that the entire and sole purpose of Haloween was to “have an excuse to dress like sluts.”
I was not impressed.
Dale,
Thats strange. In our family we tell the story about the Thanksgiving we couldn’t find a turkey. Then we remembered that we were Brits, so we don’t celebrate thanksgiving, and vegetarian, so we don’t eat turkey.
Fatveg.
And yes, It’s true we make our Witches(*) Prime-Minister – but you make your clowns presidents, right?
(*)To set the record straightI voted against her EVERY time
Mr Sullivan,
You are right. 2 days ago there was a Halloween event in my dorm, and what you heard from those students seems applicable here as well. Of course, I was busy studying Chemistry, but my Puritanical American sensibilities were still offended.
On 2002-11-01 08:54, Michael Sullivan wrote:
I was on my university campus yesterday and overheard the conversation of a rambunctious group of undergraduates, the female members of which were loudly maintaining that the entire and sole purpose of Haloween was to “have an excuse to dress like sluts.”I was not impressed.
Nor am I impressed! I agree that these silly coeds must be disabused of such notions right away! They must be made to understand that absolutely no excuse is necessary to dress like sluts year-round.
Ah, but if the female students were to dress in that manner every day, I doubt many of us would be very diligent in our studies.
Who these days is diligent in his/her studies?
It’s pagan, yes? The souls of the
dead come back each year and
we give’em a treat or they give
us a trick for the next one.
There’s no way to square it
with Christianity.
There’s all this pagan stuff
that’s part of our culture–
animist tree worship?
No problem. The Christmas Tree!
On Christian radio people
sometimes talk about finding
a Christian alternative
to Halloween. But it’s
interesting how much
fun paganism is, only
we typically don’t
notice it as such,
because it’s our
paganism.
Well, what a culture shock all this is. In Australia Halloween means exactly nothing. To the extent that people have even heard of it, it’s ‘Something Americans do.’ Nobody would be able to tell you exactly what. If kids tried the ‘trick or treat’ thing here they’d have their ears boxed—well, that’s the best outcome I can think of. Well, actually, the kids around here are pulling tricks all the time but nobody ever treats them—except when we treat them to a swift kick up the date. (I was astonished to see Martin say that it was creeping in in England—not when I lived there.)
We don’t have Halloween; what we have is the Melbourne Cup. It happens next Tuesday. As people say with barely comprehensible pride, ‘It’s the horse race that stops a nation.’ The whole day is televised to the nation. Rich people dress up in ridiculously expensive tat and ponce around the racecourse being photographed as they drink champagne stopping only to be photographed some more. Australians who aren’t there watch it on television, don’t dress up, but also drink champagne and stop only to gawk at the people being photgraphed. Both groups also eat chicken and the former eat caviar also. Horse racing takes place all day but few people notice. About mid afternoon the big race takes place. Everybody has a bet on that one. Some people win, of course, only to discover theat the price of winning is to take everyone else out to dinner. After the race people drink more champagne. At various times during the day, those who have drunk too much fall down comatose. This happens at the race course and at all the parties in front of televisions.
I won’t be watching the Melbourne Cup this year; I’ll be playing whistles and concertina instead. That said, the Melbourne Cup still makes more sense to me than Halloween. Would it help if I tried harder?
Funny…this Melbourne Cup sounds an awful lot like Superbowl Sunday, but we do beer instead of champagne, nachos in place of caviar, and two toned paint instead of fancy clothes.
I always buy myself Mounds bars. One for you, two for me, one for you, three for me, etc.
I think Chocolate may be that ‘special food’ that Dale says that the Crystal People will feed us.
Dale, we love your humor. I think we have chosen a good Undisputed King of Internet Tinwhistle Journalism. We have definitely chosen Mr. Wisely. (click on link and play audio clip)
[ This Message was edited by: Daniel_Bingamon on 2002-11-02 10:41 ]
The tradition as I understand it, in England was that children would go out on All Souls Eve and beg treats normally a sweet biscuit. In return for which they would they would include the departed of the household in their prayers. Just shows how things get distorted.
I have fond memories of living in Chinatown where kids were not allowed to trick or treat, but I knew a few cute pudgy kids who could eat four moon cakes at one sitting!
On 2002-11-02 04:33, Wombat wrote:
Well, what a culture shock all this is. In Australia Halloween means exactly nothing. To the extent that people have even heard of it, it’s ‘Something Americans do.’ Nobody would be able to tell you exactly what. If kids tried the ‘trick or treat’ thing here they’d have their ears boxed—well, that’s the best outcome I can think of. Well, actually, the kids around here are pulling tricks all the time but nobody ever treats them—except when we treat them to a swift kick up the date. (I was astonished to see Martin say that it was creeping in in England—not when I lived there.)We don’t have Halloween; what we have is the Melbourne Cup. It happens next Tuesday. As people say with barely comprehensible pride, ‘It’s the horse race that stops a nation.’ The whole day is televised to the nation. Rich people dress up in ridiculously expensive tat and ponce around the racecourse being photographed as they drink champagne stopping only to be photographed some more. Australians who aren’t there watch it on television, don’t dress up, but also drink champagne and stop only to gawk at the people being photgraphed. Both groups also eat chicken and the former eat caviar also. Horse racing takes place all day but few people notice. About mid afternoon the big race takes place. Everybody has a bet on that one. Some people win, of course, only to discover theat the price of winning is to take everyone else out to dinner. After the race people drink more champagne. At various times during the day, those who have drunk too much fall down comatose. This happens at the race course and at all the parties in front of televisions.
I won’t be watching the Melbourne Cup this year; I’ll be playing whistles and concertina instead. That said, the Melbourne Cup still makes more sense to me than Halloween. Would it help if I tried harder?
Ah, the good old Melbourne Cup…now you’ve got me really homesick Wombie.
BTW, Hallowe’en trick or treating has got hold here bigtime - my doorbell rang 12 times on Thursday night. I got quite p!**ed off actually, only to be told by the BBC tv news that it’s an old English tradition which went to the States, got forgotten here but not there, and now it’s back after a few centuries break - so we can’t even do the usual by blaming it on the Americans!
And another BTW, seeing as you mentioned the Aussie religion of sport, what’s your take on the great Cook Cup game on 16/11? (Go, Poms!)
For a while it seemed like Trick-or-Treating for Halloween was dying out here. People were too concerned with the possiblility of people giving their children candy laced with poison or something. So lots of towns came up with “safe alternatives” like Halloween parties at the local school or civic center. To me, it was just another case of overzealous parents taking the fun out of things for the kids.
This year, Trick-or-Treating was back with a vengeance. We had at least 200 kids come to the door. Very few had really frightening costumes, though. Most of the younger ones had superhero or cartoon character outfits (4 Sponge Bobs!), and for some reason a lot of the older ones were in pajamas! We had one girl come by done up like Anna Nicole Smith.
Pranks are becoming a thing of the past. I’ve heard of very few as vicious as window smashing or tire slashing. The toilet paper trick, flaming bag of dog poop, window soaping, egging and spraying of shaving cream were the big things in my neighborhood. Every year, to local kids would wrap my father’s shrubbery in toilet paper. He was a teacher at the junior high school, so he made an excellent target. On the morning of November 1, he would go outside with a rake and clean it all up, muttering and cursing under his breath. We could tell, though, that he was actually amused, and in some strange way pleased by the attention.
A few years after his retirement, the kids stopped doing this. My father was very disappointed. My sister and I decided that we should do something about it. The next year, we drove to the block next to his and parked our cars. Mind you, we were already in our 30’s. We put on ski masks and crept through the yards to his house, carrying 2 rolls of Charmin each. Working quickly, we wrapped the shrubbery in the paper. Then we topped it off with the ultimate insult - the ring and run. We rang the doorbell, then ran off. Dad came out of the house to see us running off down the street. He chased us for a hundred yards or so, yelling, “you damn kids!” and things like that. I think he was really happy.
There was a light rain later that night. It was just enough to break up the tp and make it wrap around the branches, so it’s that much more difficult to clean up.
It’s memories like this that make a lifetime!
On 2002-11-02 08:07, tyghress wrote:
Funny…this Melbourne Cup sounds an awful lot like Superbowl Sunday, but we do beer instead of champagne, nachos in place of caviar, and two toned paint instead of fancy clothes.
Tyghress, all the activities you mention would be in the spirit of the Melbourne Cup; a bit eccentric perhaps, but definitely in the spirit. Lots of beer will be drunk after the champagne has run out. I bet some people already put caviar on nachos. I bet a few people already use face paint to get attention—basically anything that will get you photographed will be tried by someone.
On 2002-11-02 17:03, nickt wrote:
Ah, the good old Melbourne Cup…now you’ve got me really homesick Wombie.BTW, Hallowe’en trick or treating has got hold here bigtime - my doorbell rang 12 times on Thursday night. I got quite p!**ed off actually, only to be told by the BBC tv news that it’s an old English tradition which went to the States, got forgotten here but not there, and now it’s back after a few centuries break - so we can’t even do the usual by blaming it on the Americans!
And another BTW, seeing as you mentioned the Aussie religion of sport, what’s your take on the great Cook Cup game on 16/11? (Go, Poms!)
I think it’s a bit of a shame when distinctive traditions migrate like that. But people will do what they want to do; if they like it it’ll catch on.
Now would that game you refer to be the strange 15-a-side game that Kiwis keep taking me to watch? By the way, where exactly do you want the Poms to go Nick?
On 2002-11-03 07:46, Wombat wrote:
Now would that game you refer to be the strange 15-a-side game that Kiwis keep taking me to watch? By the way, where exactly do you want the Poms to go Nick?
I rather fancy the Poms to go over the Kiwi try line actually (many times). Now, do I detect from your desultory tone that you’re not a 15-a-side man? Not an 18-a-side man by any chance? And if so, what are you doing in the 'Gong? I’d consider an ongoing dialogue on the 11-a-side red ball game about to commence, but I rather fancy the Poms will fare far better at the 15-a-side game.
To settle any confusion, I was born in Pomland, so when it comes to the crunch I have to back the Poms, but if they’re not playing and it’s say Oz v NZ (or whoever), then I’m a true-blue dinky-di.
On 2002-11-04 10:32, nickt wrote:
On 2002-11-03 07:46, Wombat wrote:
Now would that game you refer to be the strange 15-a-side game that Kiwis keep taking me to watch? By the way, where exactly do you want the Poms to go Nick?
I rather fancy the Poms to go over the Kiwi try line actually (many times). Now, do I detect from your desultory tone that you’re not a 15-a-side man? Not an 18-a-side man by any chance? And if so, what are you doing in the 'Gong? I’d consider an ongoing dialogue on the 11-a-side red ball game about to commence, but I rather fancy the Poms will fare far better at the 15-a-side game.
To settle any confusion, I was born in Pomland, so when it comes to the crunch I have to back the Poms, but if they’re not playing and it’s say Oz v NZ (or whoever), then I’m a true-blue dinky-di.
I grew up with the 18-a-side game in Melbourne but played the 11-a-side summer and winter games in both Aus and England. I actually quite like all football codes I get to see fairly regularly, including Gaelic football. What am I doing in the 'gong is a question I regularly ask myself Nick without coming up with an answer that my friends who’d rather see me in Melbourne or Sydney or London or … find at all convincing.
Now how did we start with a Wisely family tradition and end up here? I know; this is all about Halloween.