Sorry if this is a uber-noob (which I am) question, but I can’t seem to find the answer I am looking for: On a Low D whistle (or D whistle in general) can one play C notes on the second octave? If so how is this done? I know all open holes is C# and covering the second two holes from the top or half-holing the top hole is C, but is second octave C used with this whistle? I mean I’ve tried a bit of blowing into the second octave for these notes but so far I’ve gotten a shrill response and not one into the higher octave.
I ask because tunes I’ve been trying to learn ask for higher Cs. Take this for example:
The general answer is, yes, you should be able to play C# and C-natural in the upper octave. It will be easier on some whistles than others. For fingering, I’d suggest starting with OOOOOO (all holes open) for high C# and OXOXXX for high C-natural. You may have to explore other fingerings for C-nat in particular to get it in tune. For high D, you may find OXXOOO gives an easier, more in-tune high D than the normal OXXXXX fingering. (That’s right, same fingering as C-natural in the first octave.)
[quote=“Amergin”]Sorry if this is a uber-noob (which I am) question, but I can’t seem to find the answer I am looking for: On a Low D whistle (or D whistle in general) can one play C notes on the second octave? If so how is this done? I know all open holes is C# and covering the second two holes from the top or half-holing the top hole is C, but is second octave C used with this whistle? I mean I’ve tried a bit of blowing into the second octave for these notes but so far I’ve gotten a shrill response and not one into the higher octave.
Its an excellent question!
For C natural: Try covering half of the top hole (usually the top half ). I say this because I was covering the bottom half and was corrected by a pro/teacher who suggested my technique was awkward (which it was). When you get comfortable with your half-hole C natural, start practicing by playing each note on your scale to the C natural, I.E. B>C, A>C, G>C, F#>C, E>C, D>C, C#>C.
When that becomes comfortable, try it sequentially, I.E. B>C>A>C>G>C>F#>C>E>C>D>C>C#>C.
When this becomes comfortable, you will be well on your way.
Thanks for the reply, looks like I will have to tinker around and practice until I get it down.
Mentioning half-holing though, on a low whistle when one half-holes a note, should it be done with top/bottom halves rather than left/right halves? When I was playing my “high” whistle I halved the hole by moving my finger to the right, but playing with the pipers grip on low whistle makes this action more awkward. Does that mean a top halving is preferred?
Oh and another thing…it seems I’ve been playing a few tunes on the whistle this past month using the wrong notes. For example, for Fs I’ve used F# and similarly for Cs I’ve used C# merely due to the convenience of those being actual holes on the whistle–in other words often I haven’t been half-holing when necessary. I’ve noticed a lot of the tunes I’ve come across for Irish or Scottish traditional music don’t seem to call for F#s or C#s, so why are these default notes on D whistles?
Since the largest portion of Session friendly tunes are in the keys of D and G with a much smaller number tunes in C and A and F, I have to inquire after the source and names of the tunes you are playing.
Not only that, try blowing by tightening up your lips to make a flatter oval around the mouthpiece. I also move my tongue towards the roof of my mouth, but not touching it, to make the air stream faster without having to blow much harder.
Different whistles may require slight changes, though, and it really depends how you are blowing. The above fingering works on my Dixon polymer and, with a bit more work, on my Dixon alloy and Kerry Optima (it’s cold in the house).
As a bonus, try the E with this: XXO XXO
These work for me fairly consistently.
I agree the ease or difficulty of high C is probably whistle-dependent. For me the high C# and C-nat are very easy on the Killarney whistle… and they not at all shrill.
Now, the ITM fiddlers sometimes get shrill, because they usually aren’t used to 2nd position. I call that whistler’s revenge for all the tunes that drop below the low D.
I re-trained my fingers to use the OXOXXX fingering for C-nat for both the low and high C-nat, but the lower hand XXXs aren’t very important for the high C-nat.
I’m going to disagree on the lower hand XXX. Those act as a stabilizing element, on the pitch itself, as well as the consistency of actually getting the notes.
As an aside, when playing recorders, we have to have different fingerings for the lower and upper octaves. This gives notes that are purer and more consistent in tone with the lower octaves, and just in general. I assumed, with whistles, this would also be the case, and found that to be true when I’ve experimented.
Going back to the OP and the specific tunes referred to: maybe I’m not looking at the right thing, but neither of the tunes referred to seem to call for a high C natural, or any kind of high C for that matter. What am I missing?
Maybe Amergin is transposing the first one up to a key signature of G (rather than down to ‘D’). If playing it in the key posted the high notes would be the least of my problems!
Thanks for the replies everyone, I will try to integrate the various pieces of advice I have received.
Yeah, one of my problems is that while I’d consider myself a musical person I am handicapped by the fact that I am largely ignorant of musical theory nor can I yet differentiate notes by ear or even fully understand what keys are, though I am working on remedying these weaknesses to make myself a better musician. In other words, I can’t really answer your questions, but can make some comments so that perhaps we can work together to illuminate my problem:
On various ABC notations I have come across, there are notes marked as a small letter “c”, which I have taken to be higher octaves, with large letters (“D”, “G”, etc.) being the lower octave. I haven’t come across many large letter "C"s so perhaps the small “c” is in fact a natural C?
As to transposing tunes from different keys down to D, how would one go about that? I was indeed trying to play the tune as is written and didn’t transpose or change anything to my knowledge. Perhaps that is where I have erred.
Again, sorry for my utter noobishness and ignorance, but I suppose those traits are why I am here seeking help
Ah. In that case, it’s very easy to help you with your original problem.
Small “c” is the symbol for the c in the first octave of a whistle, not the second octave*. If it were big “C” it would be a note just below the range that a standard D whistle is capable of producing.
So worry not!
Glad to be able to help.
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It’s natural or sharp depending on the key signature and any accidentals there may be.
But to return to a question I previously asked, how in the heck do you properly half-hole on a low whistle with piper’s grip? Is it an up/down motion rather than left/right? Any tips or tricks in this area? Just seems clunky and awkward trying to half-hole so far, but that also could be that I’ve only been playing the low whistle for about a week now.
Quite so. The letters change from Upper case to lower case at the c, so the sequence is CDEFGABcdefgab. The range of that tune fits neatly on a D whistle, from F through b, though you have to half-hole the F-natural.
So what does ABC use for the high c? In Helmholz notation, it would be c’.
Everybody’s reach or stretch is different so you will have to be patient and see what works for you. How long it takes to develop the skills is up to you. A week isn’t very long to be playing anything.
Thanks for the reply, I’ve been watching Phil Hardy’s tutorials on the low whistle the past few days actually. Really the piper’s grip was awkward at first but I’ve mostly got it down now and can play the whistle fine. To give an example, I’ve mostly mastered playing “The Parting of Friends” in imitation of Matt Molloy on it which is a new tune for me (I hadn’t played it on the regular “high” whistle before.) My main technical issue so far is getting perfect hole coverage after lifting most of my fingers off the whistle to play a B note for example only to be followed by an E or D.
Really my problem here is just figuring out the half-holing. Again, so far going left or right or up or down with the fingers in attempting half-holing feels awkward.
I happily played OXX OOO for a long time, but when I started flute, that fingering produced a fairly weak C-nat note, but the OXO XXX sounded good. So, I started working up the forked fingering on whistle so that I would have less difficulty going back and forth. On my whistles, the OXO XXX fingering sounds good, but I imagine that isn’t always the case.
It turns out there are a couple of advantages OXO XXX:
It makes C-nat rolls pretty easy.
OOO XXX makes C# rolls possible (not quite as easy for me as C-nat - especially on flute).
As my lower XXX fingers achieve more agility, playing the forked G# is easier.
@tstermitz: I didn’t think about how those different fingerings would affect the flute as much since I don’t play it well, but now you’ve got me thinking about it. I’ll have to get some practice time in, first, before I try it, though. I’m okay until about halfway up the 2nd octave, then I start having trouble getting notes. I also don’t have an Irish flute; mine are Hall Crystal or Chinese dizi flutes. Same principal with most 6 hole flutes, but I wonder if a good Irish flute would help my playing.
@Amergin: when half-holing, sliding fingers off sideways seems to work for me. Takes a bit of practice, though.
Has anybody touched on this: in ABC notation the letter “C” can stand for either C natural or C sharp- you have to look at the key signature at the beginning of the tune.
It’s the same in staff notation: you don’t put a # in front of every C, because the relevant # is on the far left of the staff, and you know to play all the C’s that way (unless they’re marked as a accidental).
Anyhow there are a few common uilleann pipe tunes that need high C natural, which is why the pipes have a key for that note. Normally the high C is proceeded and followed by high B, in other words the tune goes b c b. For those I generally half-hole the high c rather than use a high c fingering.
On some of my whistles high c natural oxo xxx is too flat and oxo xxo is too sharp and to get it right in tune I half-hole Hole 6.
