I just got done shortening the neck on my L & M bag (makes a HUGE difference in reaching the regulators! Wow!), and am noticing it is not quite airtight. Close, but not perfect. The bag appears to have never been treated before (not hint of seasoning inside).
I’ve got some Hardie’s airtight here, which I’ve used ao a ton of L & M bags for GHBs, but didn’t know if the same stuff was appropriate for uilleann pipe bag use. Obviously, whatever I treat it with, I understand the bag will need to be left to dry for several days to avoid getting the reeds wet.
So Airtight? Or something else for uilleann pipe use? Thanks!
You are not supposed to treat an L&M bag. They are already treated to be air-tight. This is not a GHB bag. If its leaking, then you haven’t tied the stock back in well enough.
i wish my neck of my bag was longer,not shorter.the chanter stock from my lambe pipes would not push up to the end of my new l+m bag,and i was forced to cut an inch or 2 off.had to use brass extention to reach my regs.next time i order a bag from tim britton ill have a chanter stock installed .
Hmmm… The joint isn’t leaking at the point of tie-in (I’ve tied in probably near 100 set of pipes); did the “old cork the chanter stock, stick just the end of the stock/bag it in some water” test and it didn’t bubble at all (no, I didn’t submerge the bag). It’s more of an overall not quite tight thing–since it’s not leaking at the point of tie-in, it was clearly not quite tight before hand as well, I just hadn’t tested it.
I find all of this quite interesting, as I’ve never ran into a fully airtight GHB L & M bag (and they appear to use the same leather/tanning process). They always need a touch of seasoning to seal up the welt and fill in the pores. Or maybe I’m just super picky when it comes to airtightness!
If seasoning is a big no-no with a set of uilleann pipes, it looks like I’ll need a new bag… Ick.
As for a shorter neck… I’m a short guy, so maybe that has something to do with it. All I know is before, I couldn’t reach the top two rows of reg keys without kinking the neck (and often cutting the air supply off tot he chanter in the process). Now I can nearly reach all of the regs (top row still a bit awkward to hit), yet D/F-sharp on the bottom is still easily attained.
Seasoning isn’t a big no-=no, and if your bag is leaking air and all of the stocks and the blowpipe joint/valve aren’t leaking, then check the valve on your bellows and the binding on the inlet from your chanter. If all is tighter than my wallet, perhaps seasoning will do the trick.
I’ve played in three separate L&M bags over the past ofur years and had no difficulties with any of them regarding air-tightness. This is an interesting case. I’d contact L&M directly and request a replacement. The leather they use should be perfectly airtight from the outset.
Yes, it is an interesting case. I’ve only owned L&M bags (GHB’s and UP’s) and only one of them had a leak. It was a quarter sized hole created by somebody thrusting their dagger into it while I was playing (long story), and no0 fault of the leather, bag or the L&M company.
edited to add: Actually, the last bag on my GHB’s was a Canmore bag made out of Gortex, a great bag I might add.
L&M only sell wholesale to pipemakers as far as I know (this may have changed). You would then have to go through a pipemaker to get a new bag. My two L&M UP bags are about five years old and I’ve never had any leaks from them.
L & M bags do not leak. At least not through the leather. It is especially designed, and I believe there is currently only one tannery in Canada that has the formula / manufacturing rights. That being said, if you know what you are looking for, you can almost always find this exact same stuff available at Tandy’s right off the shelf.
Here’s the trick. Put a bit of moisture (spit on your fingers and rub it onto a section on the smooth side of the hide, blow forcefully on the corresponding spot on the suede (fuzzy) side. Air will leak around the edges of your mouth. Look at the smooth shiny side at the moist area. If there are ANY bubbles, the leather is NO GOOD for either bellows or bag. Period. You can test your bellows the same way. Inflate yer bellows, plug the holes, dab a spot nice and moist and squeeze…if’n you have bubbles…you’ve got troubles! (oooh hey, new t-shirt!)
L & M bags do not leak. At least not through the leather. It is especially designed, and I believe there is currently only one tannery in Canada that has the formula / manufacturing rights. That being said, if you know what you are looking for, you can almost always find this exact same stuff available at Tandy’s right off the shelf.
Here’s the trick. Put a bit of moisture (spit on your fingers and rub it onto a section on the smooth side of the hide, blow forcefully on the corresponding spot on the suede (fuzzy) side. Air will leak around the edges of your mouth. Look at the smooth shiny side at the moist area. If there are ANY bubbles, the leather is NO GOOD for either bellows or bag. Period. You can test your bellows the same way. Inflate yer bellows, plug the holes, dab a spot nice and moist and squeeze…if’n you have bubbles…you’ve got troubles! (oooh hey, new t-shirt!)
Yes indeed. L&M bags do not leak - at all. You can sit on them. You can have a good old game of footy (sorry, soccer) with it and then crack out a few tunes still. But for a leaky old bag, I’ve been using some of that microwavable Airtight stuff and it really does work! Leaky old bag = airtight bag. Watch it don’t gum up your valves though. Also works on old coats and shoes. And as flypaper.
if your bag isnt leaking around the stocks season it with air tight.swish it around like you would do with a highland bag then ,plug the stocks and inflate it.then hang it up to drain it and let it dry for a few days.if it leaks after that then you are in real trouble.it shouldnt affect the reeds because you are not introducing moisture into the bag.i did it and my reed is ok.
I had an L & M bag that leaked like crazy - through the stitching!!!
I tried using Highland seasoning and it really buggered things up. Bits of it would dry up, flake off and get stuck in the reed (not to mention the SMELL )
Leaks through the stitching may be better dealt with by rubbing lanolin into the stitching area to swell the leather. This was advice I got after getting a new bag so I wasn’t able to test it. Your mileage may vary.
Mrs. Gilhooley gave a good party one night
She invited us all to attend.
We gathered a gang, jumped down to her house
A few pleasant hours for to spend.
There was Duffy and Charlie and Flynn and meself
Well, a crowd wasn’t hard for ta find,
But the t’ing most important we almost forgot
We near’ left the piper behind.
We invited him down to the party
He brought his bagpipe just by chance
We asked him to sing, but he says, ``Ah, no’’
But offered us a bit of a dance.
He picked up his pipes, he started to play
Some one got foolin’ about
And cut a great hole in the bag of his pipes
And here is the tune that came out:
Naaaaa, needeleedelum needeligh needeleedeleedel
num nee nigh daloh dalah daleedeleedel
lumdeeligh daligh daloh dadeedeleedel
dalumdeeligh dalohdaleedeleedeligh
When the piper found out that his bag, it was cut
Sure he gave a great leap on the floor
And he slipped about in a quick hammer style
And he landed him under the jaw
Mrs. Levi, she fainted, they all made a rush
Trying to get out of the door
But the piper had nine of them takin’ the count
And he swore he would lick twenty more.
Well, if ever ya go to a party
Ah, you’d better keep this in your mind
Don’t get vexed with a piper
For you’ll find him a gentleman kind
But if trouble should start keep out of his way
For he carries an awful packtoe
Ah, you won’t hear it comin’ but whoop when it lands
Sure, you’ll know it’s an Irish gateau.
The crime (and it was exactly that, an assault) I was talking of took place in the year of our… um, Goddess… in the current standard way of telling time 1989.
That’s a bit more recent than the the events that the piping song took place.
Oh yes, yes the feck I can, at least until tomorrow… or perhaps, the next day. It isn’t one of my more “noble” moments, so forgive me if I take some time to recall it all.
I have an L&M bag that began to leak through the stitching - the leaks got worse with time, but the Lanolin trick seems to have sorted it out. I applied it internally, as it was recommended to me as a general cure-all for porous leather, but it would probably be sufficient, not to mention tidier, just to apply it (?externally?) around the seam. On contacting L&M, I was informed that they just stitch the seam without using any adhesive.
I’ve been internet-less for a few days here… Went ahead and seasoned the bag with good old-fashioned Airtight. As others have posted, it was leaking around the welt right where it first narrows for the neck. Not much, just a bubble or two. The most difficult part was sealing up the mainstock joint. Ended up using a styrofoam cup and a lot of duct tape (to hold the cup to the brass). Let it air dry for 2 full days (to really ensure the reeds stayed dry) and broke it out tonight and played for over an hour! Wonderful! Tight as a drum.
As for flaking Airtight… That’s generally a sign of too much seasoning. I’ve tied in and seasoned more GHB L & M bags than I care to admit (well over 30), and early on, I used way too much Airtight, and it was often messy, and would dry into a flaky mess. Now when I season, I start with 3 tablespoons or so. If after 3 or 4 minutes I don’t hear any fluid sloshing around and massaging the bag, I’ll add an extra tablespoon, but no more. Also, don’t wait too long to let it drain. The bag should still be warm from the seasoning–the airtight thickens quickly as it cools, and if you wait too long to drain, more of the seasoning stays in the bag. I’ve had no flaking reports from any of my customers or students in years…
And wow, a lot of folks here with airtight L & M bags! My results aren’t quite the same. I’ve had a handful of fully tight without seasoning (you can sit on them with no leak), but not many. They never leak like a sieve, but most are not “absolutely” tight. If I can blow in any air after 30 seconds, it’s not tight enough for me. Most don’t pass this test before seasoning. More often than not, there are no visible leaks from the seasoning (no bubbling or anything), but it still works magic.
Make no mistake, the L & M bag is the workhorse of the piping world, and I currently use one on one of my sets of GHBs, so this isn’t anything against L & M. Great stuff; I just find their bags need a hair of seasoning to be as tight as I like. Obviously, your mileage may (and often does) vary.
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