Although this video says that it is performed by the ‘Davitts’, it actually is NOT as I e-mailed them and was told they have never performed the song!!
I did find some notes for this song a web site but it is nothing like it!
I have also searched the web for the sheet music to no avail. I know the whistle part is different in parts of the song. I have managed to identify some of the notes ie d, e and D but being a music novice I have a lot to learn. I usually manage to obtain sheet music for the songs I want or I am able to find them on my whistle by ear, not this one. I play a D whistle but do have a C which I have also tried.
Any ideas will be much appreciated
Salgar
Yeah, you get this kind of confusion from YouTube uploaders now and again. If you yourself don’t know for sure, always take such info with a grain of salt, or better yet contact the supposed source, as you did.
What you have there is a form of melodic backup that can be called counterpoint, and in this case it’s probably mostly improvised around some basic themes; I lay odds that in performance the whistler you hear will not play it 100% exactly the same every time, so your odds of finding notation for that part of the arrangement are improbable.
I’ve done this sort of thing myself when accompanying singers, and there are a few things that apply: 1) you absolutely have to know the main melody solid as a rock because it’s the basis you work around, 2) you have to listen to how musicians do this sort of accompaniment, try to absorb it, and practice yourself at making countermelodies to the actual main melody, both hands-on and in your head, to do this easily and rightly, and 3) the right pitch of whistle is a must, because different singers have different ranges and comfort zones. This last is a very practical reason to try to have a comprehensive selection of whistles in every pitch possible if you intend to be ready for any singer.
Bb being the key of the song, I would agree that the whistle played there is most likely Bb as well, judging by the overall pitch and range covered on the whistle. You could also do this with either a high or low F using the same fingerings you would for G on a D whistle, but the overall pitch of the first would be comparatively way too high from what we hear there, and low Fs have a very different sound from the whistle in the clip. Also, IIRC the whistler doesn’t go below Bb, so one more reason to bet with good assurance that a Bb whistle is exactly what it is.
Well, I suppose it might be confusion, but if so, there are a lot of confused people. Last.FM, Yahoo Music and iTunes all list that exact version as the one performed by The Davitts. Completely separate listings. Still, of course, they could all be wrong.
Was it the manager of The Davitts who replied? A member of the band? Did they remember doing other tracks on “50 Irish Rebel Songs”? Was it that that particular track was performed by someone else and has since always been confused with them? Just some thoughts …
Hang on … there’s a new showband, only just formed, called The Davitts Showband. Are they some of the same people? Is it a totally separate outfit? Could this be where the confusion lies? I know I’ve managed to confuse myself by now …
Yeh this is probably where the confusion lies. I just e-mailed them using their web promo site and the reply came back from Pat Kelly (whoever he is, he didn’t say) saying he had 4 bands in his office and did not know what I was talking about!
Thanks for all your comments here, I had a feeling it was a Bb and have now ordered myself one!
I understand what you mean with regard to countermelodies and I do this all the time in my head just need to get my fingers to play what’s in my head.
Great advice, thanks
I have realised now it is pointless looking for the notes/sheet music for the song I will just try to work it out or do my own thing with this song when I get my new whistle. It’s tough being a beginner with so much to learn!
I’ve done a large number of “studio gigs” where they want the sound of the uilleann pipes in there “for texture” but they don’t want it jumping out. I’ve got fairly good at following “lead sheets”.
A “lead sheet” gives the vocal melody line and the chords. For the purposes of an instrumentalist who’s playing along (and this is somewhat of a simplification) the chord tells you which three notes you may play, while the vocal line tells you which of the three you must not play! So it’s not rocket science, you having really only two good choices.
So say the chord is D which tells us D F# A, and the singer is singing F#. Since singers don’t like you to “step on them” I’ll try to avoid F# and either play D below or A above.
The artistry is in creating something that follows the chords and doesn’t step on the vocals but at the same time has its own logic or melodic sense, something which could stand on its own as a melody in its own right, a counter-melody or “descant” as it’s called.
A very nice arranging gimmick is, if you come up with a nice counter-melody, is to use it as the intro and instrumental interlude, then on the last verse have it come in under the melody. It’s very effective because by that point in the song the listener is already familiar with both the song’s melody and the countermelody, but the listener has not yet heard the two being played simultaneously.
I now have my new Bb whistle but am still struggling with finding the right high notes in this song (as played by the whistle player). If anyone has the time and inclination to provide them for me I would be most grateful. The YT link is:
I just listened to the intro, first verse, and first instrumental interlude.
The intro and interlude are very simple, as you can hear.
During the first verse the whistle is following the timing of the vocal line very closely, just choosing notes other than the notes the vocal is doing, as I outlined above.
The starting point is knowing the chords! People who are good at improvising can hear the chord changes and don’t need a “lead sheet”. I’m not one of those people! So for me the starting point would be to either 1) find the chords for this song online somewhere or 2) haul out my guitar and play along with the song until I had the chords figured out. (I’m not much of a guitar player, but with a capo I can usually figure stuff out.)
Now, the chords you find online will most probably be in a different key, but no worry! Just use various whistles to get yourself into the key you need.
Once you know the chords, then as I said above it’s a matter of choosing one of the three notes in the chord (D Major = D F# A, E minor = E G B, etc etc) and peferably NOT playing the same note the singer is singing (they usually don’t like that).
Teach a man to fish, and if you’re interesting in doing this kind of thing on the whistle you need to learn how to do it, not have somebody else figure it out for you and provide you the notes.
Yes. Improvisation is melody created on the fly as your inspiration leads you. It could be a solo performance, or not. A countermelody, however, is by definition never solo; it is a melody whose job is to harmonise with or give added dimension to the main melody. Countermelody can be improvised, or it can be written down and played in a fixed way each time with no improvisation.
Sorry, I really don’t know quite what you mean by this.
But let me repeat that countermelody can be improvised. From the way you worded the above, I’m not certain you got that.
Okay, now I think I understand the general drift of your question. Yes, in creating countermelody you generally want to refer to notes in the chords that are fitting to the melody, at least for starters. There can be a little leeway, though. A related, basic rule of thumb that I go by would be: If a note sucks, don't use it, or see if you can use it somewhere else. :wink:
I have that part now.