Apparently Sam Smith’s Brewery have banned all music in their pubs including sessions. That’s my bro-in law’s fledgling effort out the window then. 
My local, “The Pig and Whistle”, here in beautiful downtown Scunny is a Sam Smith pub.
In order to avoid paying the increase in whatever licences are needed they have removed all Juke boxs,Radios and TV, from all their pubs.
In tonights local paper it says that they have also stopped the traditional gallon of beer prize for the winning quiz team each week.
The previous landlord once told me that the two elderly brothers who own the business are multi millionaires who dress in shabby clothes and have been known to arrive unannounced into one of their pubs for a discreet examination and on more than one occassion have been refused service over their down at heel dress sense.
One of the brothers doesn’t even own a car and gets around on a clapped out bicycle or public transport.
Eccentric is not the word,but they do brew the finest of beer and sell it far cheaper than any of their competitors.
Funny old world eh?
Slan,
D.
dubhlinn wrote:
"In order to avoid paying the increase in whatever licences are needed they have removed all Juke boxs,Radios and TV, from all their pubs. "
Even though I’m on the “other side of the pond” than you, I thought that might be the reason. And while I have no problem paying people for intellectual property, I do have a problem paying corporations and lawyers and knowing that the actual composers see little to nothing of the fees.
Missy
Amen. Here’s to the internet musician revolution.
Here are some links relative to this matter.
http://www.yorkshire-folk-arts.com/info/archive/sam_smiths.html
http://www.merchantduvin.com/pages/5_breweries/samsmith.html
The Smiths do not appear to have a website of any shape or form but that would be very much in character.
Here’s a link to the sign above the door of my local,I can’t get it to print .
http://www.briantimms.com/pubsigns/pubsignsimages/pub%20signs%20ready/pig&whistle.gif
Slan,
D.
Do I understand correctly then, that when people play in public, a bunch of tunes that were
noted to already be part of the playing tradition a hundred years or more ago, then the
owner of the public premises where said playing occurs becomes liable for a public performing
fee to compensate the hard work of those currently making the finest works available on MTV?
There are times when the working of the laws of ‘intellectual property’ utterly baffles me.
–Chris
Under English licencing law, a entertainment licence is required if more than two people are making music.Therefore it’s ok to have a crappy duet that can’t sing or play - usually with a drum machine - and a far too loud crappy P.A. but a small bunch of folkies sitting around a table bringing in custom on an otherwise dead midweek night is illegal,and the fines for permitting such activity are considerable 
Slan,
D.
Same here in Ottawa. Last summer a local publican got in trouble from the National Capital Commission because he was hosting trad sessions every Thursday.
I think, at the risk of reverting to primitive netgibberish, there’s only one thing that can
be said about cases like this: “Wtf!?”
What a great load o’ compost!
I’m also for payin’ the dues to those who own the rights, but it hits a point of ridiculum, and this sure sounds like it.
Thanks for the clarification on what the licensing issue is all about.
As information, most US states and cities have similiar types of licenses which allow a business owner to sell beer, wine & spirits. There are tavern licenses (beverages only served), hotel licenses (food & bev served, but longer hours allowed) cabaret licenses (food & bev, standard closing time, but entertainment allowed), etc.
It’s all a matter of Bigger Government taking more, and providing less.
$$$$$$
Actually, I think it more a case of conscience-less lawyers who use government and who use their clients to find ways to squeeze the bejaysus out of everyone they can figure on getting a dime or or so from.
It’s benefiting no-one but them. It’s one reason why I don’t even think about covering any current music (that and the fact that I would damage it needlessly, LOL)
Oh, dear. That’s positively repressive. Sounds like a tax.
I’m thinking y’all need to have a little tea party. Solved all our problems, and maybe it’ll work for you, too!
I’m sure we can send some Native American outfits to you!
In the US, just playing background music in a public place makes you liable for fees to BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, or whoever. This potentially includes things like a CD player (but maybe not a radio) in a doctor’s waiting room.
Take a look at http://proairshow.com/Music%20Licence.htm#Why_Do_I_Have_to_Pay_Royalties
My understanding is that whatever part of the fees don’t go to the bureaucrats and lawyers is divvied up among all represented musicians on the basis of sales, with no regard for whose music is actually being played.
If this is correct, it means that if you’re playing a Jeff White CD in your bar, pretty much all of the money from your fees will be going to the top-selling pop performers, like 50 Cent and Kelly Clarkson, while Jeff will probably not receive a penny of it.
My son and daughter-in-law had a Korean-Japanese restaurant for a while, and played Korean background music. One day, a guy came in and told them that they would have to pay this fee. How much do you think the Korean musicians would get from that? Note that he never checked to see who the musicians were. From what I’ve heard, that’s common. However, from the site mentioned above, it appears that BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC can only collect for artists whom they actually represent. If that’s the case, then it looks like a common tactic is to simply intimidate people into paying a fee without proving that their organization is entitled to it.
Certainly, if you’re playing KPIG in the background, these organizations are unlikely to know which musicians are being played each day.
Remember this thread jb? Not even the Morris men can come to the rescue if the landlords not only refuse to cough up the entertainment tax but kill all entertainment stone dead to avoid the fines
It’s even worse now Dubh. Under the new Licensing Act the ‘rule of two’ has gone and even a solo singer now invokes the need for an entertainment licence. So watch out, if you get maudlin drunk and start to hum quietly to yourself you’ll be criminalised.
Gary, here is the amendment obtained by Lord Redesdale (Gordblessim):
The provision of any entertainment or entertainment facilities is not to be regarded as the provision of regulated entertainment for the purposes of this Act to the extent that it consists of the provision of-
(a) a performance of morris dancing or any dancing of a similar nature or a performance of unamplified, live music as an integral part of such a performance , or
(b) facilities for enabling persons to take part in entertainment of a description falling within paragraph (a).
Discussions between the Government, The Morris Ring, The Morris Federation, and Open Morris have established that paragraph (a) includes Mumming and paragraph (b) includes post-dance sessions.
For me it is getting harder and harder to buy things. It seems that every CD computer program, book, appliance, or anything else has money going from the purchase towards taking away your rights to use the device in a way that you want to use it.
Tried to fix a fan the other day and it had screws that needed special tool to remove it. Half of the engineering marvels of the modern car are new ways of selling proprietary tools and making sure that only the dealer can fix it. Buy food and you never know if Monsanto’s has taken away the right of other farmers to plant last year’s feed. Looking at bikes and some of them have special parts that need to be ordered only from them, like seat posts! I just wish their was a contract that was out their like the creative commons, or GPL for manufactured goods.
Very interesting jb.
I did not know that the old “rule of two” was gone.Its been about five years now since I played in public and I’m a bit out of touch with the current state of affairs.
It did cross my mind that this could be a blessing in disguise for all you Morris Men.I mean all you got to do to have a legal session of any kind of music is to have a Morris Man on standby,dressed up in full regalia,and if the Bill stick their nose in the door,just kick him out into the middle of the room to throw a few shapes and everything would be legit.
I might look into this matter further and open an agency to supply Morris Men for all musical gatherings.
Just imagine the possibilities of getting a few Van Morrison fans together for an acoustic evening of his songs and then …enough!
Slan,
D. 
I just realised that after hundreds, if not thousands, of years of Morris it’s finally official: It ain’t entertainment!
Just? 
Reminds me of the World Championships I attended in Warwickshire some years ago. At the opening ceremonies of international shooting events, it was ‘tradition’ for the host nation to put on some kind of entertainment. The year before Warwick, the European Championships were held in Vitoria-Gasteiz, and in 38 degree heat we were all assembled in the town square to watch a display of Basque log-chopping that went on for hours… many of the competitors fainted in the heat. By way of revenge, the UK Committee welcomed the World’s competitors the following year with a display of Morris Dancing. While our foreign guests gazed in utter bemusement and confusion, we all sloped off to the beer-tent 