!
And what the heck, since it wonāt work anyway, letās add some more tubes for āchordalā effects. And ā¦ why not??? Some keys that you have to play with your wrist!
I donāt know about yāall, but the catās still firmly in my bag and, whenever I pick up my set, makes its dissatisfaction with its circumstances painfully clear.
oboe will be based on early classical oboe,modern tuning..standard oboe reeds.Standard flute fingering& cross fingering..2key, persian(best)boxwood and ivory.It will of course play into 2nd octave.
Ahhh, sounds like it will look and sound peachy! (Like Samās flutes!) Early Classical has slightly narrower bore than Baroque, so less duck-like, less beefy, a little more refined, perhaps more responsive and easier to control, but not as strangulated as modern oboe, a bit more oomph and sweet resonance. Tasty, at least in concept. (No, I donāt play oboes, have only ever had goes on my sisterās modern one at school and a couple of toots on a Baroque many years ago, but I do listen to a lot of period instrument performance recordings and read about the instrumentsā¦). Thanks for the info, kev899.
Hello all. I donāt normally post, usually being content just to read but I feel I must hereā¦I finished, not too long ago, my undergraduate degree in oboe and will be heading on to a masters in oboe performance in the fall. My main interest is Baroque oboe but I have to play modern for school and all that. Anyway, those are my oboe credsā¦And I have performed on Modern, Classical, Baroque oboes, and Shawms.
IMHO - Renaissance shawms would never work in Irish music, but then I am quite amazed that the Bombard works so well in Breton music. It is untrue that a Renaissance shawm can only play a ninth. Only the capped shawms - rauschpfeifen - have that limit. A soprano shawm should be able to hit an octave and a half - up to a high A. Larger shawms should be able to hit two octaves. If you wanna hear shawms really shine, check out Piffaro or Ciramella - these groups really have perfected the shawm in the modern world and have made an artform of it.
Baroque Oboe, Modern Oboe - I have tried playing Irish music on these with mixed successā¦I think the Baroque oboe is the key there though - it feels like it could be perfected, with some particular effort. A Baroque oboe, BTW has a range of 2 octaves and one note, a classical oboe adds two more notes. In response to the difference between the Baroque and Classical oboes, both of them being fairly simple two keyed oboes, I certainly would not call a Classical oboe easier to control. A classical oboe has more resistance than a Baroque oboe in terms of a much smaller bore and smaller holesā¦I personally find Classical oboe to have the most resistance, followed by Modern Oboe, and then Baroque. Iād say Baroque has the highest flexibility and is the most responsive - this responsivity is essential to getting the Baroque palette of articulation, but might be a great asset for Irish music too.
Of course, to play Irish trad. music, one would need to simplify the F sharp fingering considerably. As it stands on a regular Baroque or Classical oboe it is far too complicated to get out in Reeltimeā¦unless you use a simple fingering which is unbearably flat.
Some of the ornaments, while quite delightful on the Baroque oboe - strangely enough, simply cannot be produced satisfactorily on the modern oboe. Cuts for exampleā¦I have found very few cuts that work on the modern oboe but, if they are especially fast cuts, can be satisfactory on the Baroque oboe.
The problem I see coming up here is that the plan is to use modern oboe reeds - I have certain definite doubts about this. The Classical bore is considerably smaller than either Baroque or Modern but the Classical reed is bigger than a Modern reed. This larger reed, with a significantly different scrape than a modern reed, is absolutely necessary. In addition, the staple is a bit longer and with a somewhat wider bore. Shrinking the reed and the staple has been tried before - Moeck Baroque oboes for example - instruments which are not well respected among oboists.
In conclusion, I am not entirely certain an oboe will ever be quite right for a reel or a jigā¦but I already find it delightful to play airs, marches, hornpipes, strathspeys, planxtys, and polkas on themā¦and any contribution to get more people trying this should only be praised. Fairplay to all of ye who try.
Nice post, thank you, I enjoyed reading it, and welcome to you to the C&F Flute Forum!
Yes, many thanks.
I listen to Albinoni (sp?) oboe concertoes.
I donāt know what oboe he wrote for
but I have always thought that an instrument
that could play that music could do
jigs and reels. It seems so agile.
Thanks again, jim
Albinoni wrote for the Baroque oboeā¦delightful music that. When I first started playing the Baroque oboe all the modern oboists were like āwow that must be hard.ā But then I had one particularly insightful teacherā¦a modern oboist but she was shocked at the notion that it would be harderā¦she said āwell shouldnāt it be easier to play Baroque music on the Baroque oboe?ā From that point on I never found Baroque oboe HARDER - just different challenges, and each one of them delightful and wonderful!
And as for embochure - as it came up earlier. You would be surprised how relaxed the embouchure for the two key oboes is. Whenever I have given it someone to try, they have sat there blowing their brains out and scrunching up their face while getting no soundā¦its cause they clamped down on the reed too much! Just cushioning it will do just fineā¦after all as notable oboist and scholar Geoffrey Burgess is very fond of saying
āThe reed is just the gasket that connects the instrument without to the instrument withinā
Nicely said!
Naturally, as a flute player Iād say embouchure, and not reed, but the quote otherwise speaks truth, thank you.
gothicoboist, welcome and thanks indeed for your helpful posts. Itās good to know youāre here/have an expert on board. Iām glad to be corrected by someone who properly knows their stuff on this topic from experience rather than just reading and organological magpie curiosity!
I was wondering a bit about the reed issue for Sam Murrayās project as described by kev899, as I knew (from a real if very limited experience!) that Baroque reeds (or at least the speculative reconstructions used today, as so far as I have read no intact originals have been discovered) are much easier to blow than modern ones. Iād presume Sam is going for modern reeds on grounds of ready availability rather than having to make his own or his potential customers having that hurdle to overcome. Iām sure that anyone who took up such an instrument seriously would soon be making their own, though.
The Albinoni oboe concerti are indeed lovely, as is the Oboe and Violin Double Concerto by JS Bach, the famous Marcello concerto and loads of other great Baroque music. Look out particularly for recordings by the late David Reichenberg, sadly an AIDS victim, I believe, but who had a simply gorgeous sound on period oboes, as well as great stylistic/interpretative sensitivity and elan.
Iām happy to answer any questions about reeds - but it is really one hell of a can of worms to open. Consider the following two pictures (not mine, just websites I have found)
http://www.baroqueoboes.com/dalton_images/1909.jpg
http://www.annastarr.com/images/modern_reed%20-%20.JPG
The first is of Baroque/Classical style reeds made by Sand Dalton, who made my Baroque oboe. The second is a close up picture of a modern oboe reed (in a European style) from Ann Starrās Website. You can see first how much wider the historical oboe reed is. Next, look at how much bigger the staple is - not only longer but wider as well. The geometry of the staple is essential to getting octaves in tune, and even getting them to sound. Finally, though you cannot see it, the diameter of the cane is much much wider - in simple terms, a modern oboe reed has more curvature than a Baroque or Classical reed.
If one makes an oboe to receive the much smaller modern staple and reed, there is no way a reed more in line with the standard classical oboe reed could fit into the well. 2 Keyed oboes have what is called a counterbore into which the reed sits - a little mini cone, widest at the end near the players lips - This counterbore, and the choke at the end where the real bore begins, is also essential to creating a working 2 key oboe. The simple reed well on a modern oboe, with no counterbore, would help to make the octave problem, already bigger for the smaller reed, an even greater problem.
While it is true that no reeds have survived - what we use now (bearing in mind ever single player of historical oboes has a somewhat different reed set up) is a very pragmatic set up. Through thirty years of historical oboe playing and experimentation by scholars and players like James Caldwell, Bruce Haynes, Michel Piguet, and others, a reed set up that fulfills all the necessary requirements has been found. I worry that with a small, modern oboe reed, while nicely accesible, the instrument will have a somewhat smaller sound with difficult octaves. On the other hand, with a larger, more āClassicalā reed, the instrument would be much more flexible - something I have found essential to being able to carry off ornaments. Not only that, but the range would expand and youād be able to get nice full body high notes.
That all being said, I am very interested to see what Sam Murray cooks up.
You guys have me so much thinking about oboe and Irish music that I just might have to record some samplesā¦I said I would sometime ago for thesession but that was just before moving to Ireland. I am not sure when I will get to it, but I will try to record something.
Thanks for the helpful pics and explanation.
You guys have me so much thinking about oboe and Irish music that I just might have to record some samplesā¦I said I would sometime ago for thesession but that was just before moving to Ireland. I am not sure when I will get to it, but I will try to record something.
Yes please! On Baroque, I take it? With accompanying instrument pics/detailsā¦???
Well pictures we can take care of right now at least.
Here is the collection of Instruments I have with me in Ireland:
http://www.box.net/shared/xoqujhj8ko
That includes a Moeck Alto Recorder, Beekhuizen Medieval Pipes in D, Baroque oboe as listed below, Loree 2003 Modern Oboe, Casey Burns Large Holed Standard, Rod Cameron 415 Stanseby, and Scarface the German flute.
And here is my Baroque oboe - an Eichentopf Copy, A-415, Stained Boxwood, Sand Dalton
Droning on
KAC
Sorry I didnāt rush to replyā¦I was momentarily put off by Jimās bellows of protest.
For those interested in the Irish oboe idea, and not just goofy, but very witty, bagpipe puns:
I just recorded a few things on the Baroque oboe. These were quite off the cuffā¦just played into my computer - I think given a little more time (which I dont have cause I should be writing my thesis) I could do better, but you get the idea.
Planxty Fanny
http://www.box.net/shared/qir4ugb8gk
Strathspey
http://www.box.net/shared/5zxrur6kg8
Clog Dance
http://www.box.net/shared/bll0ruog84
The Kesh
http://www.box.net/shared/s7nmgla80g
Nice.
āSorry I didnāt rush to replyā¦I was momentarily put off by Jimās bellows of protest.ā
Did the lights just flicker?
āā¦very witty, bagpipe punsā¦ā
Oh my!
More like reedy squawks, donāt you think? He must be feeling a little (s)queasy, or not pumped-up enough? Sequential punning is a staple activity here, even if some perpetrators deserve the cane or whipping . And surely, Jim, āOh boy!ā would have been more thematically effective than āOh my!ā? If you canāt beat 'em, join 'em! 
Gothicoboist, thanks for posting your sound clips. I havenāt been able to listen to them yet because Iām currently having major internet connection speed difficulties, but am looking forward to doing so asap. Thereās stuff on the clips thread too that I want to listen to, and a couple of new clips I want to post, but theyāll all have to wait on my broadband ISP sorting my line out. Frustrating!
god