Hey everybody,
I don’t mean to steer this thread in a different direction, but I have been trying to reach Sam Murray to discuss possibly ordering an instrument and I can’t reach him. I’ve tried e-mail, but I think the address I am using is wrong.
If anyone knows Mr. Murray’s e-mail, or any other way in which I might contact him, please let me know.
Thanks,
Michael
I’ve had an order on Sam since early last year (2008).
I paid him a deposit and sent the balance on his request when he let me know the flute would be ready in August (2008).
I sent him the balance rightaway away and the cheque was cashed.
Since then - nothing - no word - weekly emails, periodic snail mails, registered letter.
I want the flute! I know he is great maker but as a supplier he is terrible.
Maybe someday I’ll get my flute.
Caution: I would not send the man any money!
Find another way to get one of his flutes.
Chuck
Dale, Mods: We hear this over and over and over again, virtually every year. Seriously, how long before Sam is listed as a problem seller???
Chuck, check your PM’s.
Loren
Yeah, and we’ve heard Jim Stone’s complaints again and before - flat bottom notes which need to be pushed into tune etc. Requires skill & patience on the part of the player etc.
You can say what you want about Sam Murray but at the end of the day he is a well respected craftsman and flute maker. His instruments are sought after. He runs the business his own way and if you want to deal with him you do it on his terms and that’s that. I don’t think anything anyone says here damages his business - if anything it just adds to the mystique and desirability of a Murray flute!!
We don’t have a list of problem sellers. We have a forum on which people can post factual information about problems they’ve had with sellers.
Well, there was this: https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/warning-a-problem-seller-of-whistles/49113/1
And you have taken the step in other cases of naming a retailer and stating publicly that you can no longer recommend people buy from them, so I wasn’t asking something where there is no similar precedent.
Thanks for the clarification though, I won’t bring up such matters for moderator review in the future.
Loren
Mystique is great, but you can’t convince me this is an acceptable way to do business. Thanks for the heads up.
I bought the flute used, it was out of internal tune, seriously–the slide was fine.
Barry played a Murray with the same problems, although Barry believes it
is a special model for hard-blowing Belfast players who like a very flat
second octave D.
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/alterations-to-a-flute-by-others-than-the-maker/62616/85
He writes:
‘’…I’ve played two Murray flutes now-one that was bought new from a vendor in the USA, and one that was sold abroad, originally intended for Ireland, but sold instead to an Englander, and both very different in tuning.
The first one I played was definitely an easy player, with a slightly flat bottom D, and middle D in tune. The next one I played had very flat bottom and middle D’s, along with some other flattened notes in the scale, unlike the first one I played.‘’
On my flute the bottom notes were OK, I like a flat low D, it was the second
octave that was the problem. I had the problem confirmed by a flutesmyth
before I had any work done. I’ve played flute for over six years and I’ve
dealt with odd tunings. This was something else.
Since then I’ve played another Murray
that was sweetly in tune.
I didn’t send it to Murray because he’s far away, we have no business relationship,
and he’s notoriously hard to do business with.
I mentioned it in this thread (bottom of the page):
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/price-for-a-murray-flute/60272/15
If anyone is able to get in touch with Sam, would you please ask him to get in touch with me by email, if possible?
It seems to boil down to Sam being erratic in service and quality, I have played a fair few of his flutes now, and have loved some and had problems with others, poor tuning seems an issue especially on his recent output. Is there any truth in the rumour that the flutes are not just made by Sam now but his son also?
The Murray keyless I bought secondhand from a lady in El Cerrito, Calif in June 2008 was then 8 months old, and it is very in tune and very easy to play. In fact my partner who plays fiddle remarked on the tuning saying she prefers it when I play the Murray. The flute developed a crack in the barrel this winter, but it’s still playing well and I’m really pleased with it.
“Is there any truth in the rumour that the flutes are not just made by Sam now but his son also?” Treeshark.
Don’t know - haven’t heard anything about child labour 
are you sure 
?
I share your assessment of what it seems to boil down to. It’s hardly an unreasonable assessment, given
all these reports about erratic service and quality.
What makes the thing maddening is that, as far as I can tell, these are very desirable
flutes when made right. So we’re trying to get them. And this sometimes leads to expensive
adventures and disappointments. And the badly made flutes are getting sold used,
so that people who try to avoid the business adventures by buying a used flute
are having their own adventures.
If I can come out and say what I think, this would be a good time for Sam Murray to confront
the strong appearance of erratic service and erratic quality and, if necessary,
get his act together. Definitely in the interest of all concerned, including his
own. The fellow seems to have a rare talent for making flutes.
I live in galway and can say that I’ve played nearly all the flutes that have left Sam’s shop in the last year/year and a half..keyed and unkeyed I have yet to play one that was out of tune.I think it helpfull to suggest players adjust emboucheres to suit the flute..The shape of the embouchere does not stay the same for all notes on any flute..
Hello Kev, just out of curiosity, about how many flutes does Sam Murray make in a year? I know that might sound like some sort of a dig given some of the above comments, but its actually an honest question. BTW, someone who was selling her Murray lent it to me for a few weeks. It was the most comfortable flute I’ve ever held and it had great tone and playability. But I eventually passed on it because I too found it very hard to play in tune. That’s not to say better players than me can’t do so and be richly rewarded for knowing how. I guess if you play a Murray long enough you start making those embouchure adjustments you talked about instinctively. Still, wouldn’t you agree that Murrays are more demanding in that regard than many other makers’ flutes?
Jim Stone wrote
I share your assessment of what it seems to boil down to. It’s hardly an unreasonable assessment, given
all these reports about erratic service and quality.
What makes the thing maddening is that, as far as I can tell, these are very desirable
flutes when made right. So we’re trying to get them. And this sometimes leads to expensive
adventures and disappointments. And the badly made flutes are getting sold used,
so that people who try to avoid the business adventures by buying a used flute
are having their own adventures.
If I can come out and say what I think, this would be a good time for Sam Murray to confront
the strong appearance of erratic service and erratic quality and, if necessary,
get his act together. Definitely in the interest of all concerned, including his
own. The fellow seems to have a rare talent for making flutes.
sponge wrote
I have read quite a bit good and bad regarding the Murray flutes, I played one very early on which I had on a trial basis, I found it quite difficult to play and I know that was down to my inexperience, as the owner made it sound amazing, he played with a very hard edgy tone and had a face to match when he played it, his only reason for selling was to fund part of a new keyed Murray, he had Sam make his flute to a specific requirement, which I thought didn’t suit me, if I had it now things would be very different.
Jim do you think maybe your used Murray flute was made to a certain playing style that you just could not master, if I was selling a flute, Murray, grinter, Copeland etc etc I would not dream of selling something that I percieved as being faulty and requireing work to get it in tune, especially as you bought it well over market price, was the seller aware that the flute was out of tune?? as I still find it hard to believe Sam lets inferior flutes out of his workshop,
from the negative stories I have read it seems he holds onto them for quite a while until they are ready to fly.
I would be interested to know if anyone who ordered a flute from Sam and had it made to a specific requirement and had problems once they recieved it.
Sponge
I’m with Treeshark on this. I think Murray has a consistency problem. I’ve played over six years
and my main flute, a Bryan Byrne, is hard to play. Especially there is a flat low D. I played the Murray for a month before I asked the opinion of an expert. The problem with the Murray’s tuning was in the second octave.
The expert said the flute was definitely out of tune. Since then
I’ve played a Murray flute that was sweetly in tune. Several of us, myself, Barry, Treeshark,
are reporting Murray flutes that are in tune and Murray flutes that are badly out
of tune. The simple and obvious explanation is that there is a consistency problem.
It’s conceivable that some fluters are requesting flutes with these features but I doubt it.
I doubt that anybody positively wants the features my flute had. Further
these flutes are sometimes being sold new to people who
didn’t request these features and consequently sold the flute
Barry reported such a case. Add the erratic nature of Sam’s
business practices, that he’s constantly behind: this makes it likely that he’s rushing.
That he’s releasing defective flutes is the more
likely conclusion.
Even if these apparently out of tune flutes are being made that way
on purpose for special people, the fact is that they sometimes are being sold, either
used or new, to people who don’t want them. We’re talking a lot of money,
it’s hard to do business with Sam in the first place, and I think potential
buyers on this board deserve to know.
I will leave this thread, having said what I think. Again I think Sam
M has a rare talent at flute making.
In response to sponge: All flutes are hard to play to the beginner flute players-and some more than others. It depends on how many tuning anomalies the maker leaves in his flutes-as often found in the antique flutes, especially the earlier Rudalls and their copies. Rudalls seem to give more players a hard time to adjust to than some of the more accurately tuned and later Pratten copies (the Perfected models)-of course, it’s hard to generalize too, but just superficially it seems so to me from what flutes I’ve tried and also read about others difficulties with them. This has all been said before, in many different ways by many people here on Chiff-so no real news, just repeating for whomever’s benefit.
How an embouchure is cut will greatly affect how playable a certain flute is for a given individual-if your embouchure and the cut of the flute’s embouchure hole match up well, there will be lots less grief trying to play a flute for many. In time, most people can probably adapt to just about any flute, as it will become second nature to be able to play that flute that you may not have done so well with to start, unless of course you have a very poorly made flute-more like a cheap Ebay flute that isn’t made by a well know maker. Though, by the same token, there could be a much better flute or embouchure cut for you out there-and how do you know unless you try other flutes? It helps to be a flutemaker, as it did for Terry McGee when he found that his rounded rectangle cut made a better player out of him after playing for years, than the more traditional ovals or round cuts, as he relates on his website. Or another way is to ask others at sessions or workshops for turns on their flutes-but that’s not really telling you much, as it can take months (or longer) sometimes to really know a flute, and how you relate to it. I imagine trying someone else’s flute may be an instant revelation, if you’ve been struggling with your flute, for a few people now and then.
I don’t know that Sam Murray is turning out badly tuned flutes-I kind of doubt that he is, though it could of course be possible and the tuning may not be spot on always-the second Murray I played “was within specs” according to one flutemaker, “though possibly at the outer edges on some notes” to paraphrase, and to another flutemaker, this same flute suggested some work could be done to it to improve it (to his standards). And it gave horrors to two other people who played the second Murray, Doc Jones being one, who refused it for his store in trade. After a bit, I was able to adjust to the tuning fairly well, though it certainly took a good bit of concentration, and wasn’t very easy for how I play.
But I certainly do believe Sam is making them to different specifications at times. The tuning might seem unorthodox to you, if it doesn’t fit your playing style-as in the case it seems that many of his are made for the harder blowing style typical of where Sam started making his flutes-in Belfast, which it also seems that many outsiders have adapted with the hard honking D’s etc, so naturally they are widely accepted by those who either want to play like that, or that is already a part of their technique. Needless to say, but I will, is that to an inexperienced fluter, this type of flute will seem almost an insurmountable obstacle to play, and not easy either for someone who plays more gently.
I’ve had two Murrays so far-as I’ve said before-one bought here from the first shipment from Sam to Doc Jones at the Irish Flute Store, which was night and day different from the one I got from overseas, and it was said to have been made for someone in Ireland. I can only surmise from this that it is very possible that Sam, knowing the shipment to Doc was aimed more at our market in the USA, tuned them differently and made them easier to play, and conversely those made for the Irish market are tuned differently too. I’ve tried asking Sam via email out of curiosity about the differences, but you know that was a futile proposition. More mystique added to the legend, and also some confusion, no doubt.
And the final thought about tuning is that when Sam makes a flute to order for someone who knows what he or she wants, it may be entirely a different flute tuning and playability involved again, and if that flute hits the open market (and it will eventually as a used flute), it may make some lucky person an excellent fit, or possibly not-as it depends on how much someone is willing to adapt for the sake of their music, and what is compatible with how they play. So, judge a flute on its own and how it plays for you, and not someone else’s perceived notions on how it should be.
Sorry for the long windedness-just trying to help explain some things we’ve been around and around at for a while, as I see it, anyway. All I know is that there is something special to Sam Murray’s flutes-a certain quality that whether it is tuned one way or the other, Sam has done something good with his craft, and is to be experienced, if and when you can get a hold of one. It’s the business side of Sam, that I’m not too sure about, though that doesn’t speak as well for him as his flutes do. Carry on.
Barry
Hi Barry,
nicely put.
I know Jim has retired from this thread, but I asked a question earlier on in the thead regarding
what is required from a flutemakers point of view to fix an out of tune flute, Jim said it cost him an extra $100 dollars to get his Murray in tune, so if you want to chip in Jim please do, as I am intrigued, or Jon C, or Terry Mcgee, Jim said it was out of tune in the upper octave.
I am just guessing but is it re-cutting of the finger holes or re-boreing the flute as $100 fix
seems very good, and I would think it was only a small amount of work, I know one flutemaker that charges £90 an hour for flute work ( tuneing ), his repair rate is £40 an hour, he specialises in Boehm but also works on keyed simple system flutes.
so anyone wanting to chip in please do 
sponge
The flutesmith who confirmed the tuning problem offered two solutions.
First, undercutting some of the tone holes. The note would still be
flat but I could probably manage, by standard gymnastics.
to blow it in tune. The second option was to shorten the footjoint. The maker had recently
done this to another Murray, he said, and it had entirely solved the tuning problem. I went this second way.
It cost 75 dollars. I get to 100 by adding postage and insurance fees.
The note was seriously flat in both octaves but I didn’t mind the flatness
in the first octave. The note is now slightly flat in the first octave
and in tune in the second octave.
I’m not a maker (yet), but I do have a flute that I had a little trouble playing in-tune. I found this flute really difficult to play in tune in the top half of the second octave. Like the A and B were about 40c flat relative to the first octave. It could be played in tune by really overblowing, but I like to back off to keep the volume as even as possible, so I didn’t like it.
I sent it back to the maker for some other modifications and he tweaked the tuning, too. I’m pretty sure that he only did some undercutting of the top few tone holes. I looked in the bore to see if there had been any re-boring, and if there had been, he was able to camouflage it pretty well (same amount of oil as in the rest of the bore, etc.).
I’m also interested in hearing from makers how they tweak tuning to individual players.