Really OT: So... how tough are you?

Whistle
1

In the age of reality TV, where people compete to see how long they can stand to sit in a tub full of tarantulas, how many digusting things they can stand to eat, how well they can jump off a ten story building, or any other number of dangerous and/or gross acts… comes a true story that would make even the most gutsy of those competetors shudder to think of having to face a similar situation. An incredible story, the sort of which one doesn’t run across every day. For those of you who haven’t yet heard the tale from your favorite news station or paper, here it is… for your reading amazment, a story about a very tough man and a very large rock. :astonished: All I can say is OUCH!!! :boggle:

Here’s the link:
Climber](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85933,00.html%22%3EClimber) Chose to Amputate Own Arm in Life or Death Decision

In all seriousness though, can you imagine being driven to do this? Would you be able to do what this man did when it came down to it? We never really truely know until we are in such a situation. It’s something to think about. But in thinking about it, I personally don’t think I could do that. I can imagine myself facing a lot of things… but not what this guy did. Hats off to him!

Sara

(Afterthought… I hope this guy wasn’t hooked on playing whistles.)

2

When I was on Outward Bound last summer one of the counselors told us a similar story–except the guy’s foot got pinned rather than his hand, but he used a pocketknife too. Definitly made me think, too. To think, a pocket knife …eek! With such a small blade it must have taken forever. Amazing what some people can/will do. Don’t know if I’d have the kind of steel to withstand that!

3

I have a morbid fear of loosing my limbs, and I can’t honestly say I’d be able to cut off my own arm like that guy did. I’d lay there and die probably before I’d be able to do that.

I say this now, but I’ve never been in that situation, so I don’t definately know for sure what I’d do. I suppose.

4

Hey, at least the guy had a pocket knife, it actually could have been worse if he hadn’t had anything sharp enough to do the job.

Still, totally sucks to have to make that choice.

Loren

5

well I’ve heard of foxes chewing their leg off to get out of a jaw-trap, but that’s just nuts… :astonished:

6

How tough am I? When the time comes, I’ll let you know.

Just so long as I don’t have to cut off my hands, or my…never mind. :astonished:

:smiley:

7

Just so long as I don’t have to cut off my hands, or my…never mind.

I imagine it would be rather difficult to cut off both of your hands like that.

8

I wish I could say I’d be able to do something like that, but I guess none of us knows until the time comes. I remember reading the article…the guy was out of water and knew that there was little or no hope of help coming before he died of thirst and exposure…still, it takes a certain kind of grit to be able to do something like that, even if you know it’s likely your only hope of survival! My hat’s off to him, that’s for sure.

Redwolf

9

Think that’s tough? Try going through a divorce.
Or ministering to your dying child. You want
to go on living, you have to be ready to
gnaw off things dearer to you than
body parts. It’s a rough world.
Maybe the toughest thing in life
is letting go. Best

10

Not to take anything from the guy but after five days trapped and two without water, not only was he in all probability delirious and in shock, but his only real option was to die without doing anything. It may be that he took the easiest route. I also question the overall mental fitness of someone climbing alone in a wilderness area, something no intelligent climber would ever do.

As for whether I, or anyone else, could do it, there’s only one way to know. Hopefully, we won’t get the opportunity to find out.

11

I also question the overall mental fitness of someone climbing alone in a wilderness area, something no intelligent climber would ever do.

Absolutly positively correct.

Hopefully when this young buck makes the rounds on the talk show circuit.. he will have the courtesy to appear on the Dennis Miller and/or Bill Maher Show.

12

You two are simply incorrect: I could make a list a mile long of highly intelligent climbers who venture out alone regularly, it is not at all uncommon - this guy was quite experienced and well within the range of his capabilities. The mistake he made was not letting anyone know where he was headed and when he expected to be back. Still, it’s not that uncommon among experienced hikers/climbers, especially when you aren’t planning anything unusually risky. This guy just got unlucky, it’s not everyday a boulder drops on you.

Loren B.
NOLS Grad (National Outdoor Leadership School)
Climbing Instructor and Former Climbing Gym Manager
Former Colorado Resident (Aspen and Boulder)
Current Flatlander :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:
Always carries a sharp knife in the back country :boggle:

13

I don’t think that I could be that tough as to cutting off an limb. My sport – sea kayaking has its dangers ---- drowning for one – over exposure etc. etc.. But I am guilty of what Loren has brought up. Not telling someone where I am or going and that has got me into trouble.

In some cases, it is other boats, sea doos etc. that create problems for me. Like being run over, swamped, then being hit.

And by the way ---- welcomed back Loren! It’s good to hear from you,\

MarkB

14

I think he actually did let people know where he was planning to be and when he expected to return…the problem was, no one expected him back for another couple of days, and he’d have never held out that long with no water. At least that’s what I remember from the CNN article.

I’m no climber (too acrophobic!), but I do day hike by myself quite often…and you’re right: No matter how careful and experienced you are, something can always come up that you hadn’t planned for. Even when I’m just tramping around Mount Hermon, I carry a day pack with some emergency supplies (including a Swiss Army knife!) and way more water than I ever think I’ll need…but there’s always the possibility that something will happen I’m not prepared for. It’s one of those calculated risks one takes, I guess. :slight_smile:

Redwolf

15

As a keen outdoor pursuits enthusiast I was very interested in this story, which by the way even made it accross the pond and featured on BBC world news.

It is scary to even contemplate being in a situation where a decision like this has to be made. And if I think about this right now, I would say that I havent got the balls to cut off a limb.

BUT (its a big but) its not the first time I have heard a story like this, does anyone remeber the American Fisherman who did exactly the same thing, when he caught his arm in a winch whilst out fishing alone?

The truth is that our own insticts of self preservation are so strong, that most people in the same situation would take the necessary action to survive. Most people would be suprised at the things they do in a life threatening situation, but we are all equiped with insticts which are designed to keep us alive.

Fair play the the guy though, he must have some balls of Steel! Hope he does hit the chat show circuits, and get himself enough cash together so that he can get himself a new arm!

Also…Iam agreeing with Loren, if an individual has enough experience, there isnt any reason why he shouldnt be out alone.

In the age of the modern GPRS mobile phones, I very rarely tell people exactly where iam off to climb or walk, and if i do,i often change my mind and go else where! After all I do this sport to get away, and get a sense of achievment out of it, not to go to a fav climbing spot, where people know where iam, and iam safe!

You have alot of Qualifications there Loren, I would love to gain some of those qualifications and work full time in the outdoor industry, its just trying to get the cash together to pay for them!! They are pretty expensive qualifications over here in Europe, is it the same in the US??

16

This business about boulders moving and
pinning or crushing limbs, etc
is hardly new. Living in Colorado
I’ve known people
to whom its happened–but
thankfully they weren’t alone.
It’s hard to read the story and
not come away with the impression
that doing technical rock climbing
or canyoneering alone isn’t
such a good idea.

17

That story horrified me when I heard it on the radio.

I can see both sides of the argument, but I have to agree with Loren for the most part. Sometimes things happen. I knew a guy in Worland that had shot a big buck deer on a snowy day and was dragging it back to his truck. It started to slide on a hill, an antler tine pierced a femoral artery, and in spite of some skillfully self-administered attempts at first aid, he died. Would he have been saved if he’d had help? Probably not. Sometimes your time just comes.

Of course it’s always more risky doing anything by oneself. But sometimes it is for solitude that we seek the wilderness. In my opinion, if you’re smart and cautious, it’s worth the risk.

On the other hand, there are times I’ll see something I want to do when I’m alone, say a cave that needs explored or a lake cliff that just begs to be jumped off…that’s when I head back to town and grab a friend. :slight_smile:

Oh, and Turner, certifications really aren’t needed, although the knowledge can come in handy. I usually recommend that people take a free hunter safety course to learn how not to kill themselves (I don’t know if there’s a UK equivelant), then make friends with someone who is an experienced and safe camper/hiker/explorer/climber–whatever you want to learn. Most outdoors people, like musicians, are eager to share their wisdom and bring a new person into the “real” world.

Loren, where are you living these days? I’m going to be in Florida next month, if you’re still around those parts…

Tom

18

Oh, and Turner, certifications really aren’t needed, although the knowledge can come in handy. I usually recommend that people take a free hunter safety course to learn how not to kill themselves (I don’t know if there’s a UK equivelant)

Cheers, but you got the wrong end of the stick Wyo :smiley: I have been climbing, hillwalking and mountaineering since I was knee high to a grass hopper…thats what happens when you grow up in the Peak District of England. I bagged my first mountain at the age of 11, Mount Snowdon in N Wales, although not technically challenging, its still a fairly hard climb.

I also had many many oppotunities in the Army to pursue outdoor activities, it is activly encouraged by the Army, and they are only too prepared to foot the bill!

However my perfect job would be working in an outdoor activities centre, where you require qualifications, however in the UK and Germany the Qualifications are very very expensive to get in the 1st place, each one can cost about 500 to 1000 pounds…and you need a few to get a job!!

Maybe I should relocate to the US…

19

Ah, I understand now. Maybe it’s living here in Lander (home of NOLS), but a lot of people seem to think you can’t do something unless you have formal training in it.

Of course, formal training is not a bad idea, especially in such potentially lethal pursuits as climbing or riding a 4 wheeler :slight_smile: . But for us normal people it can get a bit pricey.

As for the prices over here, you could always check out www.nols.edu on the web. They’re a bit reluctant to let you know the cost :astonished: but it’s in there if you’re persistent.

Good luck on getting some training and on your potential future career!

Tom

p.s. The only mountain I’ve climbed in Brittain is the same one everyone else and his grandmother climbs: Ben Nevis. Not a difficult walk at all and a bit crowded, but the view is worth it.

20

Simple precautions are usually the ones that are stupidly ignored. The worst Century I ever rode, and the one I’m convinced played a role in my subsequent heart problems, was one that was known for the excellence of it’s support and food stops. So, for the first time I didn’t worry about having food in my bag, not even a banana.

What I DIDN’T count on was starting late, riding alone, and getting lost in the fog and riding 25 miles out of my way. When I finally rolled into Kampsville, they’d already shut down the food stop and there was literally nothing open in that town on a Sunday afternoon. So I got a couple of really sugary sodas out of a machine and then started back to the quarter stop 25 miles up the road. Luckily, someone reported that riders were straggling and they sent out a chase car. When it found me, I’m told I was down to 5 mph and weaving all over a State Highway. Even though I eventually recovered enough to drive home, my electrolytes were bombed and chest pains started not too long after.

You should NEVER assume that you’re so good or experienced that nothing can go wrong, especially now. Two words: cell phone.