I’m thinking of getting a sweetheart six-keyed blackwood flute. I’m also considering the 4-keyed rosewood. Has anyone any experience with Ralph sweet flutes?
Thanks,
Kiri Miller
Ralph Sweet flutes vary tremendously. One could be wonderful (play smoothly) or it could be horrible (have a very cloudy tone). I think it’s a bad idea to mailorder one, but if you have an opportunity to sample them, then that might be good.
Jessie
Consider it this way: There’s a reason why a Stradivari costs so much and a run-of-the-mill violin doesn’t.
However, Ralph’s work (of which I’ve known for decades since my fifing days) is a good starter position for very limited incomes.
His two-piece keyless are okay beginning points. But as posted in previous message, they vary greatly in quality of tone. And if a keyless flute isn’t perfect, then the keyed one from it will be less so since keys start to denigrate the integrity of the bore.
If you want a keyed flute and have the means for one, then don’t choose a flute based on the time factor of acquiring one (which is why Ralph sold so many…they’re quickly obtained). That alone should put a question to your mind. I’m not slamming his flutes at all, mind you. But there’s a reason why a McGee keyed flute takes two years or more (and other fine makers, too).
But, if you don’t (and won’t ever) have the means for a high-end keyed flute (that includes newly made, as well as vintage), then you’ll be okay.
A flute is a very personal purchase and if you’re not totally pleased, you’ll always want for another and never treat the one you have in the manner it deserves. Kinda like a spouse. I always say I’m married, but my flute is my mistress.
Thanks for the advice, I wish you had posted that about two years ago. I purchased a Sweet two piece and never did get dang thing to sound right.
So if the flute is your mistress what tunes do you play for her? See my posting on the whistle forum “Love in Lisdoonvarna.”
Strange as it may sound, when I was working a being a full time visual artists, I often compared the canvas as my mistress.
Mark
Well, Mark, you could have played Justin’s Sweet flute. He didn’t bring it to the sessions much, but I’m sure he’d have loaned it to you to get a feel for it before spending.
Regarding tunes, I’ll agree there are moments the flute responds to certain tunes better than others. This morning for instance, I was playing my Metzler (the one for sale on my website) and it decided the best tunes today would be in G. Not sure, but you can feel it happen, so I gravitated toward G reels and it just sang. On a different day, the D reels work better for it and still others any tune with F-naturals.
Today’s choices were Green Gates and Hunter’s House that I was toodling with to find whether variations were working or not. But the Metzler is only a fling, not my real mistress. That’s reserved for my Rudall.
On 2001-09-08 22:17, JessieK wrote:
Ralph Sweet flutes vary tremendously. One could be wonderful (play smoothly) or it could be horrible (have a very cloudy tone).
I’d add to that that they vary along their length, too – I’ve got one in rosewood that, when sufficiently humid, plays great, but if less humid, has one loose joint! Nothing a bit of teflon tape can’t solve, though. (Teflon tape is the duct tape of the woodwind world!)
Also, his fruitwood and furniture wood instruments can also be good flutes (my first flute was a Sweetheart maple) but the tone and feel really didn’t suit trad.
Also, compared to some other Irish flutes I’ve played, Ralph’s have a smallish and very oval embouchure and large fingerholes, which I’ve always found odd for what must at least partly be intended as a beginner’s instrument. It’s not the easiest flute to get a sound out of.
If you can find a Sweetheart rosewood that plays well (if you’re new, have someone else try it) at a good price (I think the $350 list price is too much) then you’ll have yourself an adequate flute. There are much easier ways to obtain an adequate flute, though (my current way being a Dixon three-piece polymer).
Edit: Yipes, I didn’t notice you were looking at a keyed flute. You can do much better for your dollar at one of the more established Irish flute makers.
- -Rich
[ This Message was edited by: rich on 2001-09-10 09:18 ]
Hi Rich. I’ve never heard a sweetheart flute play, but I think any of the old style simple system flutes can be used for trad music. Not every flute in Ireland was a blackwood prerfected, they had flutes from all over europe. Some Irish friends showed me a flute that had been in their family for generations that was made in the USA! I read in an interview with matt molloy that the main reason he plays a pratten is that one of his relatives had one sitting on a wardrobe when he decided to take up the flute. The pratten style flutes might have been the most highly saught after, but not all of them were able to get one. I’m not trying to pick a fight here, but really the tradition seemed to be that the musicians played their music on whatever they could get hold of. So I guess that if you can get hold of a Delrin plastic flute - that would count as traditional. IMHO.
On 2001-09-11 07:12, nickb wrote:
Hi Rich. I’ve never heard a sweetheart flute play, but I think any of the old style simple system flutes can be used for trad music.
Sure, you could even play trad on one of those Pakistani “cocus” flutes on eBay. You just won’t enjoy it much.
I doubt the original poster cares much that it’s possible; I think they want a good flute. (Note that Ralph’s flutes are unequivocally not patterned after any of the “old masters” of the classical flute.)
I play one of Tony Dixon’s Delrin flutes now; Tony produces a good instrument that has many of the qualities that one would want in a flute for playing trad, because Tony explicitly designed them that way. Ralph’s – especially the flutes in softer woods – aren’t designed that way, and don’t have the sort of sound that trad players are looking for, and they’re frighteningly inconsistent.
But I’m afraid I can’t begin to understand why, since some people play well on subpar flutes that are handed down to them, that the original poster should be content spending money on a subpar flute when they have the opportunity to get something better.
But don’t take my word for it; I asked the woodenflute mailing list back in April,
Has anyone had a chance to play Ralph’s blackwood flute? How does it compare to the usual big names?
You can read the responses by searching for the Subject header, “High-end Sweetheart flutes”, in their archives</a](http://archive.woodenflute.com/woodenflute-archives/woodenflute.200104">archives</a)>.
- -Rich
Hi Kiri and All,
I see Kiri is looking at keyed Sweet flutes, but I want to chime in with some of Rich’s comments. I’m a hobbyist and I bought a maple keyless D and a rosewood keyless piccolo D from Ralph Sweet this past year. Because I also play silver boehm, I was more than a little persistent about experimenting with my embouchures on the wood Sweets. They both sounded like Neanderthal flutes for me at first, but after experimenting with lip positions and volume, and actually filing the rosewood picc’s embouchure larger, I am satisfied with the tones of each. They don’t sound at all like the standard Irish flute sound, but they sound very pretty in their own right. I think the maple was a bit over priced at 250.00, though, and it looks like a kitchen chair leg.
So Kiri, did you ever get a Sweet flute?
Were the members’ comments here helpful?
Kiri,
If you haven’t already, you should contact Doc over at http://irishflutestore.com. He has a previously owned Sweet 6 key in blackwood. Ask him what he can tell you about it or see if you can make arrangements to try it. He’s a great guy to deal with.
Here’s the link
Doh!
Talasiga I walked into the open grave of a post that’s been resurrected from the dead!
That’s what I get for posting too early!
Scott
The topic is “Ralph Sweet Irish Flutes” and the subject of the topic is not dead material because there is a living person making them and living persons playing them.
Just because the topic starter is not currently with us (not even to thank people for the responses) does not mean the topic should be deemed dead. If establishments had to close down when their founders died or disappeared, why, our cities would be empty.
Issues do not disappear with their posters.
Anyway, thanks for those valuable links.
I like Ralph Sweet.
I like Ralph Sweet, too. My minimal contacts with him have always been positive experiences, and he has freely shared his knowledge (he taught me how to rethread a tennon), fingering chart, and even rubber O rings to mark where you flute is in tune…for free even though the Sweet flute I had was 3 people removed from the person who bought it from Ralph directly.
Now that I don’t have have one of his flutes anymore, thanks to Jim Stone, I’ve become fascinated with the idea of owning one of his Apple flutes…an idea which will go unfulfilled unless anyone wants to send me a free one since “she who must be obeyed” has forbidden me spending the family money on more instruments.
Eric
I too have a six-silver key blackwood flute from Ralph Sweet. Plays beautifully. I was very surprised at how well it plays. It sounds focused, is well in tune, and has good volume. I will be selling it at some point so contact me off list if you have an interest in it.
I offer it with a full money-back guarantee. It has a Rudall-esque body (slim, feels great in the hands), silver keys and rings, and comfortably large holes. Looks and plays somewhat like a good Sam Murray flute.
Would you like me to talk to her on your behalf?
If you go into Kiri’s profile you will see that he/she has an email link.
She may still be interested. It can’t hurt to try …
Thanks Tal, for the suggestion. I sent her a PM.
Not much use sending a PMN to someone who doesn’t appear to be visting here for some years.
Thats why I suggested email.
I played two of his newer model flutes at the shop and thought they were very good (Firth Pond and Hall) and very different than the older style keyed blakwood flute like the one Doc Jones has. I lived close to Ralph and have been to his shop a few times and tried loads of flutes. I agree they can be variable but one of his early Pratten models was nearly perfect and his newer model ( a few years now) was very different altogether.