question on playing 3rd octave D note on low whistle

I’m working on a tune that has a high D(3rd octave) in it. I’ve not had to play this note before(on whistle) and I am wondering if anyone has advice on it. I’m playing it on my Low D whistle- shudder to even contemplate playing it on my high D whistle. :astonished: I am hitting the note ok- in terms of it being “in tune”- have even checked it with a tuner and it is spot on-but it seems too loud or something- really stands out from the other notes- even the high B (second octave) that comes before it. Is this just the way it is- or is there a way to make it sound smoother? I’m having to really push it in terms of breath to get it up there but that just seems to make it stand out from the other notes too much for my taste. Any ideas as to how to make it sound better or will it just come with practice?

You can try different fingerings.

The “correct” way to play 3rd octave D is oxx|ooo. You can also try overblowing oxx|xxx and xxx|xxx.

I’ve had good luck on some high whistles with xxx|xxx giving a smoother, easier 3rd D than oxx|ooo.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

–James

Not looking to hijack a thread, but on a related note…How high on “most” whistles can you play into the third octave? Never tried it on my low D, but on the high D am able to hit 3rd Octave D and E. Can I go higher with different fingering? Or is that the limit?

Just curious…

Matt

There has been research done on the third octave:

http://www.fullbodyburn.com/html/flutes/whistle_main.html

I’ve never played above high G myself, xox|ooo.

The fingering for A is oxx|xxo, but I don’t really want to try that on whistle.

–James

Yeah 3rd octave G and A would hurt on a whistle. :open_mouth:

I have had really good luck with the oxxxxx fingering, doesn’t sound too loud. The whistle you are playing matters too. Experiment with the different fingerings and see which one works best. I love the 3rd octave D and E on my Susato Kildare Low D. They are in tune, and not that much louder than the top of the 2nd octave. I have a Freeman twaked Gen Bb that has a lovely top end as well as a home-tweaked Gen C that also has a beautiful range (it’s hard for me to put this whistle down) that hits 3rd octave D and E quite nicely.

By the way, when working on third octave notes on whistle, even low whistles, I strongly suggest you either practice out of doors, or use hearing protection (or maybe both!)…there is a real (if small) danger of suffering a degree of hearing loss.

The same warning applies to flute until you gain enough experience to have control of your volume.

–James

Awesome! Thanks for the link, that was most helpful… :smiley:

Matt

I’m playing the D by overblowing oxx xxx; oxx ooo is way too sharp on my whistle, and xxx xxx is almost there but still off in the 3rd octave- but oxx xxx is an accurate “in-tune” 3rd octave D- it just sounds like it’s being overblown which it is, which is the problem I’m trying to figure out how to overcome…

note- I’m talking about a low whistle here btw- won’t even contemplate this on a high whistle- I tried that octave when I first got my high whistle- the cat hired a lawyer and I never went above 2nd octave b again :slight_smile:

Hi Anita.

The design of the labium ramp is the key factor here. Higher registers on a Duct Flute require greater velocity of the airstream to achieve overblown notes. If the ramp has a shallow angle and a large bore diameter (Low D), the airstream requires very high velocity to hit the 3rd octave (4th register) D notes.

Unfortunately, high velocity equals greater loudness as well (E = 0.5mv squared/Kinetic Energy)

You can try some simple modifications to solve this though. The magic word is Backpressure.
One way to increase Backpressure and reduce the airstream velocity (v) needed to achieve your high D note, is to add Blu-Tack putty to the bore end hole. This will reduce its diameter and provide some extra Backpressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-tack

Another way to create Backpressure is to reduce the inert airmass (m) that the voicing needs to displace near the window. Inserting a 1mm or 2mm thick coil of 1 inch wide paper between the voicing window and the tuning slide (waxed in place), will restrict the airmass to only that found above this throat reduction. The whistle will respond faster and require less airstream velocity to overblow your note. (see diagram here)

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~DL1S-YMGC/nohkan-e.htm

Both of these modifications may achieve minimal results though. A Low Whistle design similar to a Fujara with a bore/diameter ratio of near 1/40 would be best for upper register acoustics. Maybe a narrow bore low D(?) with a deep voicing window(?).

That is most interesting actually, but may/may not be feasible. I need to stay with the whistle I’ve got- a Sweetheart Low D- which is the only one I can actually reach the holes on. It plays all the other notes well- lovely really I think, so not sure I’d want to do anything to mess those up. So I probably need to find a way to play that particular note some way that makes it sound less overblown I guess…but not such that it changes the other notes if you follow… which I am guessing that even minimalist modification such as blue-tac putty would do (I expect to rarely need to play this note-just want to be able to if I need to). But yes, what you’re saying makes sense- and I guess it is hard to engineer an instrument so that all notes sound equally awesome… but am hoping there are playing modifications I can make as to how I’m attempting to play it that would help here… thus my inquiry…