Question about Burke C whistle

Whistle
1

I have posted to this forum only a time or two but have enjoyed lurking and learning over the past several months. I play other instruments mainly (although lately the whistle has garnered most of my attention!). Now I have a question which I thought I would ask since the wealth of information on this forum seems endless.
I purchased a narrow bore Burke whistle (aluminum) some time ago and have been extremely pleased with it. Now I want a new whistle this time a C. After researching on his website, I can not decide whether to go with the narrow bore or wide bore. I would like the quieter of the two which I assume would be the narrow bore, but not at the expense of the overall feel and play of the whistle. I guess I am mainly concerned about 1) the difference in air requirements between the two and 2) would the wide bore be as “quick playing”/ responsive as the narrow bore.
The narrow bore I have now is very fast playing and it seems logical to me that the wide bore, due to requiring more air, may not be as responsive? I do not know this as fact though as I have never played a session or wide bore Burke.
I would welcome any insights you may have especially if you have first hand experience. I am leaning towards the wide bore (brass) since it is the most “different” from what I have now.
i will inquire directly to the maker as well but I figured with this vast database why not use it!

Thanks in advance.

2

I am in the opposite position! I play a session bore burke D, and I am wanting a narrow bore C.

It seems to me, that narrower whistles generally are more responsive, and less loud. I don’t think the air requirement has anything to do with that, I could be wrong, though. I am sure there are probably narrower whistles that are louder than one that is fatter, or less responsive, etc. due to what’s going on in the whistle head contributing as a factor too. I don’t know too much about whistle construction, this is just based on what I’ve observed in whistles I’ve played or heard.

It’s also worth nothing that narrower whistles seem to usually take less of a push to get into the second octave in many cases.

I’m sure other factors contribute to these things, too.

If you can wait a bit of time, I’ll let you know how to narrow bore C is. You can’t go wrong with either though, I’m sure.

My session bore burke D is a very responsive whistle. I am sure the narrow bore is moreso (it seems that way to me, from what I’ve heard of it, anyway). But, you don’t need to worry about any of Michael Burkes soprano whistles being unresponsive, I would say. I don’t imagine that the session bore C could be unresponsive, considering the session bore D is a responsive whistle. Also the session bore D has a very warm deep first octave and I really don’t think it uses much air at all, though again, the narrow bore uses less, according to his description.

I wouldn’t say the session bore takes too hard of a push to get into the second octave, however, the second octave B and A notes do take just a tad more push than whistles such as sindt, freeman bluebird, or just about any of the plastic topped cheapie whistles I’ve tried, but the tone on it is very good.


If I have a narrow bore burke before you do your purchase, I will let you know how it is.

Personally, I am going for the narrow bore for a few reasons. I don’t want to overpower the sound of anyone else I might be playing music with, due to the fact I would not say I am at a very advanced skill level. Although, I’ve heard the narrow bore really isn’t a quiet whistle, but simply more quiet than the session bore.

Also, more responsive, less air requirement.. though the session bore is good in these points, I don’t think a whistle can ever have too much of those qualities, though I’m sure there is a trade-off. Not to mention, I like whistles that travel between the octaves as smoothly and easily as possible. I am guessing the narrow bore might be in this direction a bit more too.

You could decide with a coin-flip and you’d probably end up with a good whistle either way.

It’s worth noting that narrower whistles , due to flipping octaves more easily, seem to have a 1st octave that can’t be pushed too hard, but perhaps the burke is different. Is worth the trade-off for me, though.

3

Greetings, Dan. We’ve crossed paths around town before.

If you still get to Raleigh, drop by our session at Tir Na Nog on Blount Street on Sunday afternoons. I’ve got a brass widebore C Burke you can test-drive. It’s also a great, open and welcoming session that you’ll enjoy. Just remember to let me know by PM, so I remember to bring the whistle!

4

First, so you know, I own and play both narrow bore and session bore High D models of Burke’s whistles in all three materials - composite, aluminum and brass. I own session bore C’s in brass and aluminum. I do not own any of the narrow bore C whistles because I didn’t personally see/hear a real distinct advantage/disadvantage to them over the session bore C’s.

Here’s my take. You should play each to answer your concerns adequately. I usually tell folks to buy one of each anyway.

But, if you want to take my experience with the high D’s into account, here’s my thinking on them.

The air requirements of both are similar enough to not be a big deal or a deciding factor. But that’s just me. I have no lung issues with either. The narrow bore is marginally easier. The session bore is not an air hog in my experience. It’s an easy blower.

The volume difference is not a huge factor to me as a player. The session bore works better in a large group. The narrow bore is s bit sweeter at the top end. The session bore is a bit stronger at the bottom end. Still both are good and well balanced whistles.

Response is excellent in both whistles. The session bore plays quite a lot like the narrow bore models, same playing characteristics and dynamics. It just has a slightly fuller sound. I do favor the narrow bore but YMMV.

Tone and timbre of the aluminum and brass models are similar to the listener. The player will notice a bit more of a ringing tone in the brass models than the aluminum. That is not picked up by in a mic or by those a few feet from the player. The composite models are noticeably mellower.

Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

5

Everything Feadoggie said is right on point. I own and play both session and narrow bore Burke’s as well. I’d add only one additional point of difference between the two. The narrow bore has slightly more space between the finger holes which makes a great deal of difference to me since I have huge hands. The difference in volume and breath requirements is almost imperceptible to me. It certainly would not be a deciding factor to me.

ecohawk

6

Feadoggie, I have a question. I have a brass narrow bore C on it’s way to me currently, and I was wondering- Does the second octave B (and the other surrounding notes) take a bit less push on the narrow bore, than on the session bore?

The session bore is fine in that regard, however, it does take perhaps maybe just a tad bit more of a push for a b than some of the other whistles I play. I was curious as to whether or not the narrow bore would perhaps be just a slight bit less of a push for those notes. Are the transitions from octave to octave a bit smoother, would you say?

7

Well, I would say that it’s all relative. Words and descriptions are no substitute for actually playing and judging for yourself. I’ve owned a lot of whistles and I find the Burke in general to not require what I would call “push” to hit the high B. I could pull a few whistles out of the pile and demonstrate what I mean by “push” and the difference between those and a Burke, any Burrke, would be dramatic. They are pretty smooth whistles as things go. So it is all relativce to your experieience.

I’ll will share two more thoughts though. Yes, the narrow bore whistle should require less pressure to hit the high notes than the session bore and that is a characteristic of the bore in that design. The higher notes will be supported more easily in the narrower bore. So that is to be expected. But the differences between the two whistles will not be “dramatic” although it may be observable to you.

Second thought. Mike Burke has changed the way he voices his whistles over the years. I started buying his whistles in 2000-2001 at the suggestion of a well known player. At that time Mike made whistles that had the easiest second octave I have ever experienced. The highest notes were, as they say, “slick as butta”. But that strategy left the lowest notes a bit weak (again, it’s all relative) and there was a tendency to blow the low notes sharp if you didn’t take care. I would say that those whistles represented the penultimate beginner’s whistles. They performed just as every new whistler wishes a whistle would work. They spoke easily, didn’t require any strong effort and the top end was, well, “like butta”. But that’s the issue. It’s not the best voicing for a seasoned player. What does a whistle need to be that gets a lot of loud session play? You know, a real battle whistle. Mike tends to listen to his best customers - the ones that play best and result in the majority of his sales from word-of-mouth endorsements. So Mr. Burke started to work things out a bit differently. His present design and voicing gives what is one of the best compromises between a solid low end and an accessible top end that you will find. And while that voicing may not be what many beginning players dream of, it really is the best way to do things. It can take a player a long time to come to appreciate those characteristics.

Mike Burke makes good whistles. If you talk to him, he may even be willing to voice your whistles according to your preferences. But it might be best in the long run to take his standard voicing and embrace the way it plays. You’ll come to appreciate it over the years.

When you receive the narrow bore C Burke you will probably like it. If you don’t you can always pass it along to someone else here on the forum. Not a risky move at all. Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

8

I wrote out a very long post, but I’ll just condense things a bit by saying, I got the brass narrow bore C, and I really like it!

Due to not having a session bore C, I can’t compare air requirements or responsiveness, but I can say that the narrow bore C has , as far as I can tell, identical air requirements and responsiveness as my session bore D.

That’s not all that is identical, either! Holding the session D and narrow bore C side-by-side, I noticed that most all of the parts are identical in dimensions and appearance, exactly. It appears to be a session D with a longer tube! I am sure that many fine adjustments are made that are not visible to the eye, which would differ it, however.

I own burkes above and below this key, in either the session or standard bore size for those keys. So, I think I can spot some differences between this burke and the others, though as Feadoggie said, the differences are slight.

The lowest notes have a bit different of a sound quality, compared to the keys a bit higher and lower, and not narrow bore. Can’t speak of it one way or another, it simply sounds a bit less “Ooooooo”.

The highest notes of the second octave, which are usually more piercing than other notes of that octave, have a much less piercing quality in volume. Yet the other second octave notes on the whistle sound as you’d expect. This is a big thing I enjoy about this whistle. The consistency between volume of both octaves is great. Neither octave is quiet, but the super high notes (Second octave B, and c, [octave above c natural] ) are a bit quieter, so that they are a closer volume to the other notes. On many whistles I find these notes are a bit louder than I’d prefer, and cause a big spike in volume when I come to them in a tune (which in some cases can be desirable, but in most tunes I prefer them balanced, as they are with this whistle).

That also leads to something I expected in this whistle, which also relates to consistency- The pressure required for notes. What I just said about volume in those higher notes, applies to pressure, too. I don’t notice a big spike in the amount of pressure needed for the very high notes. The second octave uses very similar pressure throughout the entire second octave. It is not in such a way where there is a big increase in the amount of pressure needed for a second octave B, over what might be needed for another second octave note below it. The conistency in pressure makes this a whistle that is very easy to get a natural feel for the pressures needed, even after about the first minute of playing it.

It’s a very easy player, the volume is great throughout, though toned down a slight bit where I think it needs to be, and the pressure required for all the second octave notes is more consistent throughout, with the higher notes not needing a great deal more pressure than the notes a bit below it. I think the things relating to volume and pressure are likely the primary differences. Though, also as mentioned, all the other burkes I’ve played do really well in these areas, too. I just notice even more of a difference on this narrow bore, than I do on all the other burkes I own in surrounding keys.

I think the bit of differences I can note all relate to the various qualities of both extremes in the high-low spectrum. Pressure and volume is better in the very high notes, and tone is a tad different in the very low notes, slightly. Volume in all notes is excellent, and the low notes are by no means weak. I think this sums it all up, pretty much. It’s a good whistle, and I’d recommend it.


I do wonder though, if the narrow bore D has the same size head and parts as the Eb whistle,as this does with session D, but that’s a different topic.

Good luck choosing the right C whistle, but either one would be good. I think this one is probably a bit easier to play, but the other burkes are not difficult players either. It juwst depends on what you want in a whistle. I also recommend getting both and keeping the one you like. That is really the best advice that was given in this thread, and will guarantee you get the right one for what you are looking for!

Edit- I am terrible at condensing things.

9

Yes, the Burke high E and the Eb have the same bore as the narrow bore high D - ~12mm. At least mine do. There are differences in the length of some of the components that may not be obvious. I am sure they get a few different adjustments during voicing to their respective scales. And they do feel similar in the hands. They all play quite a lot alike.

And that is the reason I play a fairly complete set of Burke whistles. There are no surprises when I pick up a whistle in another key. They are very consistent across the entire range of pitches. I place a high value on that.

Feadoggie