I know this question is probably asked a lot here, but I wanted to ask what would be a good first flute with my background in mind. I already play quite a few instruments, including a pretty nice open-key Boehm flute and tuba, so breath support isn’t an issue for me. I am a broke university student, so I’d rather not go above the 500 euro range. Delrin is ok, but I’d prefer wood. I live in the US. I have fairly large hands. Thanks in advance for answers!
Edit: Thanks for the advice! I’m thinking I’ll probably order something from Tim Adams.
Hi ! If you’re in Europe, I’d recommand to buy from a local maker in order to avoid tarrifs.
If you don’t mind playing a delrin flute, François Baubet in Ireland makes delrin flutes that are easy to play, in tune and have a very good tone. Michael Cronolly ( M&E flutes ) is another option, good sounding, maybe less easy to play for some due to a larger diameter. I own both models and like them. Check out the detailed demo videos of these two flutes by Martial Benoit on you tube.
If you want wood, there’s limited choice under 500 euros for a brand new instrument. Rui Gomes in Portugal, Tim Adams in Sweden and Davy Angus in Northern Ireland are in your price range. There are few reviews of these flutes unfortunately on the web. There might others I haven’t heard of.
The other possibility is to buy a second hand instrument, provided it’s been made by a reputed maker.
Avoid the Pakistani made flutes that are so commonly found on Ebay, and it seems that Mc Neela models have very mixed reviews as well. Good luck !
Since you are limited in budget and in the US you are best to figure delrin and used. Three D printed might be another option. I have heard some fantastic fluting on a 3d printed Boehm model. I didn’t really focus on who made it since I fill my brain with whistle and simple system flute trivia. Check out the 3d printed Zeng option at the Irish Flute Store in Greeley Co. Blayne can give you some sense of the sound of these. They are firmly in your price range. Make sure you get to the real Irish Flute Store. (There used to be a clone site out there. I am not sure if it is still up, but it looked just like the IFS with silly cheap prices) Blayne can perhaps play it for you. I have never seen nor heard this flute so I can’t speak for it. You may be looking in the used delrin market for the $500 price range. They come up more word of mouth and friend of a friend sales. There is the Irish Flute and Irish Whistle Marketplace on FB. But I have honestly not seen anything in that range there. And I agree to avoid the pakistani made flutes and the bit about McNeela models having pretty mixed reviews. So proceed with caution there. There is an Irish Flute Players FB page that has a bunch of good players. I know FB is the past for many folks, but for niche markets like Irish fluting it is one of the ways you can communicated across the world with sound and visuals. There are many detailed discussions of precisely this question if you run a search on that page.
Dave Copley makes a great Delrin flute right about at your price range. His wooden one without a tuning slide may be close to your price range as well. Also check out the Irish Flute Store online. There are often multiple used flutes to choose from and they are out of Greeley Colorado. The tariffs are a mess…I would avoid buying overseas new from a maker right now unless you are ok covering the 10% tariff.
McNeela gets very mixed reviews because most of their stock which isn’t credited to specific known European makers is from Pakistan. Ditto Hobgoblin and most mainstream music shops.
Sorry, read too fast, I thought the OP was in Europe at the moment. I’ve been fooled by his use of euros instead of dollars. So my advices fall flat. My bad.
Since you are used to playing well made band instruments (the student models are typically very good though certainly not great), you are likely to find the less expensive wood, as well as a number of the Delrin flutes unacceptable, or at least……disappointing.
With your budget you are going to get the best flute in the price range with the Copley: Well made, excellent intonation and playability, and excellent customer service.
Skip the M&E flutes, they are inferior in all respects, and there have recently been reports of multiple cracked headjoints, despite the flutes being made of a polymer.
Baubet flutes can be inconsistent: You might get a good one, you might not. Also, he is somewhat casual about delivering when he says he will, so you could end up waiting significantly longer than expected.
McNeela: Don’t do it. Just. Don’t.
I have no experience with the latest Chinese made flutes and so can’t comment on those.
A number of people seem to like the Rob Forbes flutes. I have only played 2 Forbes flutes and I much prefer how the Copley flutes play, but perhaps that’s just me. Rob’s flutes are well made, no issues there.
I would second the Copley flute recommendation. $575 gets you a three-piece flute in African blackwood that would honestly be a great flute for any player, beginner or not. He also sometimes has other woods available for the same price; I got a beautiful one in mopane from him a couple years ago.
I started with a Casey Burns folk flute, and I found that to be an excellent instrument that took me a long way. Most of his folk flutes are in blackwood, but I’ve also played a nice one in boxwood. Casey Burns is retired from flute making, but you can still find used ones fairly frequently, right around your price limit.
Definitely can’t go wrong with Galeon Delrin flutes. Very well made. And no maintenance concerns. I have a Pratten model that looks and sounds great. Mine has the tuning slide. It was around $500 from the Irish Flute Store. I also had a McNeela Cygnet in rosewood and a Delrin M&E and the Galeon is much better than either of those. I’ve heard great things about Copley as well but have not played one yet. One suggestion - you can book a 15 min appointment with Blayne through the Irish Flute Store website to discuss flutes for sale on his site and about flutes in general. He is a great resource re the flute market.
One of the main problems when you first start out, is finding a flute when you want it. Most makers have waiting lists, and even a short one, like Dave Copley for Delrin is 3-4 months, and 8-10 months for Blackwood! So, if you want to start soon, you need to find what is available now. You can always buy something like a Doug Tipple flute for about $125 US, and get on Copley’s waiting list if you really want a wooden flute. Or go a little higher, like the Galeon flutes at the Irish flute store, for a really nice Pratten or Rudall model with tuning slide and 4 piece construction for $500. I can recommend either; they are great flutes for starting out, or even later on in your learning process.
I also have an M&E that is a good one, in Ebonite, but those are hard to find. Many have started on his polymer flutes too, and only recently have some been reported to have been cracking. Who knows why or how prevalent that problem is, but it might not be as widespread as feared. Though they are a bit larger diameter than most, so it takes getting used to in the beginning. Delrin flutes are more hardy though overall (higher temperatures exposure specifically compared to PVC polymers), and a better bet for rough handling or usage. Forbes also is good, but I didn’t get along with his either, and preferred the Copley just for his embouchure cut and thicker walled design. But a lot of us started on Doug Tipple flutes, no doubt! He sure has mastered the art of pvc cylindrical flute making at very friendly prices, though large hands help if you want inline holes, as most do.
Good luck deciding which way to go; it’s not easy, but you can be playing in no time if you wish.
I can also recommend the Tipple flutes! I love mine still. My Galeon also plays beautifully, and is by far my favourite. And I would trust that all of his models are of similar quality to his resin ones.
Can anyone comment on the quality of the Dixon 3-piece? Not the aluminium ones, but the 3-piece more traditional flute?
The Dixon 3 piece was my original Delrin flute purchase…so I am assuming they’re the same today as then. It’s a nice playing flute…nice enough I spent a fortune to send it to New Zealand to have Maurice Reviol add an Eb key to it. Not the loudest of flutes (smaller holes and bore), but well in tune and just a good flute. Personally, I prefer my Copleys and M&Es to it, though, but the relationship between the player and flute is so personal what I prefer may not be what you prefer. There is a very, very old post on C&F about Patrick Olwell playing one of these 3 piece Dixons and commenting on it being nice and sounding great.
I try to imagine myself as someone new to simple system flutes and reading these recommendation threads. As I do so it occurs to me there is a significant problem for the person wanting advice: There are a bunch of different recommendations but no real sense given of what (I would consider to be) a relatively massive difference there is between some of these instruments with regards to workmanship, playability, customer service, consistency between one flute and the next from a given maker, and so on. So on the surface it almost seems like there is a very flat distribution of what you’d be getting with these flutes, rather than a more realistic portrayal which actually significantly more vertical in distribution.
For example: If we look at the factors I mentioned above, which purposely does not include price, and we use a tier system of ranking, then I’d rank the Copley flutes (wood or Delrin) in with A tier flutes along with the likes of Olwell, Hamilton, McGee, and a number of others, while flutes like M&E, Seery, Tipple, and even would fall into C or in some cases even D tier flutes for various reasons. Now I’m not saying one shouldn’t consider those flutes, but they are on a very different level even from something like the Forbes which I’d rank as a B tier flute, being clearly much more well made than the M&E, though not universally agreed upon as being a top tier flute.
Granted, people will have varying opinions on what tier various makers’ flute would accurately fit in, but I do think we could do better by those who are asking for recommendations if we gave a better idea of where the various flutes fall relative to one another rather than simply saying this flute or that flute is “good” or whatever, particularly in light of the fact that those making recommendations often have wildly different levels of experience - with playing and with various flutes. I’m not knocking reviews from less experienced players, but if someone is saying a C or D tier flute is excellent, really good, or plays great, etc., then that is only particularly indicative of their limited experience and it would be helpful to have a way to put that in context for those just getting started.
Anyway, it just seems to me that making a choice would be more complicated and difficult than necessary, with a greater potential for a poor outcome for the buyer due to how we often reply to these requests. I managed a retail musical instrument store for a number of years and I saw first hand how being given too many options most often ended up being less good for the customer as they often talked themselves into less good options and then came to regret the decision.
Well, it seems Tim has a nice system there for his wooden beginner’s flute! I like how thorough his accessories are that he includes with his flutes, and that F hole plug is pretty interesting too! Appears to be a good deal, though I don’t know what the import tax will be on it for you, living in the US, but it probably isn’t prohibitive, just annoying enough!
Good luck with it, and if you do decide to go with one of Tim Adam’s flutes, it would be great to hear how it all worked out for you. He might get some new business from other Chiffers when they hear what they are like! Have a blast, Daniel!
Yes, too bad there isn’t a system like you suggest, Loren, but some things aren’t always done by a systematic approach, especially when it comes to music and instruments. A lot of it comes from impressions and feelings; I know, very inadequate, but there they are.
Besides, it seems our limited response inquirer already had an idea of what he liked, since he was talking in Euros, not dollars, and then the name Tim Adams pops up when Daniel says in an edit, that he will probably go with one of his flutes. He was asking for affordable flutes, so naturally we obliged his request with our suggestions. I imagine he didn’t see or hear of anything he liked better so he went with what he liked best. We all have to make our own way, no matter what even the most experienced of us say. And just human nature to follow your own thoughts on something as personal as a musical instrument purchase, even if we know there may be “better” choices that are suggested. So we go with our own instincts, and see how it works out.
I essentially agree with what you’re saying, and my point lies elsewhere: I’m not suggesting we steer the poeple in a certain direction, and of course they must choose what seems best to them. What I’m getting at is that there is a very real and significant stratification of flutes from Pakistani junk to Olwell and Wilkes levels, with 4-5 grades in between, and we most often don’t give the OP’s in these threads enough info on this. This is particularly problematic because there isn’t always a direct and predictable correlation between price and how good the flute is, so there are often multiple price point recommendations where the potential buyer is lead to believe that 3 or 4 flutes in the $300-500 range are going to be essentially on the same level of craftsmanship, playability, intonation, customer service, resale value, and so on.
For my part, I’ll proceed a bit differently going forward if/when I respond to these inquiries. It’s not my intention to tell others what they should do, just offering some food for thought.
I like your thinking, Loren! To this end, I suggest we all join in a fund to support me in buying one flute from all the well-known makers in this price range. I will then play them all, rank them on a tier list, and then maybe eventually pass them on to another respected flute player that they may do the same, and so on .
I like Loren’s idea, and agree that it makes sense to organize by three or five tiers. That could help newbies with advice and make their decisions easier, or at least more rational.
Obviously there are top-tier makers whose names come up with regularity, and the quality of their flutes is endorsed by price and lead-time.
There is also a wide middle tier of decent and even excellent flutes. Recommendations from this tier is more difficult, because few people have tried flutes from all those different makers.
Well, Blayne Chastain is one who has considerable experience, and it shows in the pricing at the IFS:
You might not know who Peter Noy is, but when you see that Blayne prices his keyless flute at $2,800, compared with let’s say Holmes McNaughton at $1,800 or a couple of Sam Murrays at $1,300, you can see how Blayne and his understanding of “the market” values those four flutes: condition, quality, desirability.
The difficulty comes when an inexperienced or new player is trying to get advice on a low-priced flute and they’re looking in the $400 range. I think they should pursue a DECENT entry level not the cheapest. That’s why the Copley blackwood ($800) and Copley delrin ($500) get such frequent recommendations: consistency, history, availability.
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