Please help...whistle buying problems

I own a Dixon Traditional high “D” whitle …which I have given to my wife to play.

Today I received in the post a Chieftan high D whistle. AND I AM A BIT DISAPPOINTED.

The Chieftain sounds better than the Dixon in the low octive, BUT while I have no problem getting a full upper octive out of the Dixon I am having real trouble getting the second octive out of the Chieftain.

I am thinking about sending the Chieftain back (the seller is good and I am sure they will take it back) … and buy something else…even another Dixon.

Is it most likely that my trouble with the Cheiftain is me? Could there be something wrong with my Chieftain.

I want a whistle that plays mellow and sweet.

HELP!

Sounds like it might be you… On the other hand, most whistles will not play “mellow and sweet” in the second octave, at least at and above the G. I recently got an Everywhistle from Carey Park and the mute allows the second octave to be a lot less strident. The only whistle I have played that isn’t fairly loud in the second octave is the Burke DAN…

Pat

The Dixon Trad has an easier blowing 2nd octave than most whistles. If the Trad is your basis for whistle playing, I think you’ll find that most other whistles are gonna need more of a push to get the higher notes. It sounds like this is likely your problem, although there is still the possibility of a faulty whistle.
When I first progressed beyond the Trad, I went through a lot of perfectly good whistles because the air requirements were more than what I was comfortable with. Even a Burke DAN felt like a lot by comparison. And I still regret that I ever got rid of my Busman cocobolo for the same reason.
And initially, I was unhappy with my Mellow Dog because of it, but stuck with it, and now I consider one of the best whistles I’ve ever played.
Now, I’m so used to it, I actually squeak in the lower octave on the Trad.

Yep, I agree too. It’s probably not the Chieftain that’s the problem per se. They are well known for their high requirements especially in the second octave. I believe you have two options, either sending it back and getting another whistle or; -And I believe this is the better option, sticking with the Chieftain and learn how to deal with its special requirements.

Once you learn how to play it the Chieftain is a wonderful whistle. Recently I bought a Chieftain Mezzo D and I truly love it though it does need a LOT of air. On the other hand I’ve played a lot on my low D Chieftain lately and I was already used to the high air requirements necessary so adjusting to it wasn’t that hard.

I can tell you that going from a Dixon Alu low D to the Chieftain low D was a similar experience to what you’ve had with your high whistles. Though the Dixon is pretty good I don’t want to switch back to it from the Chieftain though…:slight_smile:

Cheers,
Anders

You’re looking for a Burke: very sweet sound, strong in the first octave, easy to blow in the second octave. Known to be a very easy player. I recognize the problems you have with both the Dixon (weak bellnote and weaker in first octave) and the Chieftain (very hard to blow in the second octave and too loud).

This is SO easy. www.burkewhistles.com Nothing more must be said. Listen to Arnie. He has the knowledge.

I want to thank you folk for your advise. I am going to do one of two things:
Keep the Chieftain whistle …or
Ask for a replacement Cheiftain whistle …just in case.

It does sound like I just need to work harder at the higher octive.

I have played several instruments over the years, trumpet, guitar, and bagpipe

I am teaching myself to play using books, so I am suffering from not having anyone to learn from.

Again, thank you for the advise

I’d bet that most of us here are teaching ourselves with books, so you’re not alone. :slight_smile:

Jason

Well, you can lead a horse to water… It has always been my understanding that the basics of the whistle should be taught. (I never had that luxury) Then, you learn more by listening to as many songs and tunes that have whistles in them. Then, by playing along. Oh sure, I’ll probably start another hornet’s nest, but I do know what works. If you do not practice regularly by LISTENING and playing, you should tape up the whistle holes and use it as a straw.

I’ll bet your Chieftan is fine. Just spend some time with it. Like the others have said it takes some getting used to. The first time I ever tried to play a low whistle was on an Overton. I had the same sort of problems at first.

Low whistles are different animals. They just take getting used to.

If you do not practice regularly by LISTENING and playing, you should tape up the whistle holes and use it as a straw.

I got a real laugh from that.

By the way, my Chieftain is a high D alloy model.

I am going to call the music store today and talk the situation over with them. I don’t have money to spend on one whistle after another.

Just for my information, which high D whistle do you prefer. As I live in Scotland I am very interested in the views of those here in the UK.

I don’t have money to spend on one whistle after another.

Not to be slagging you but, in the light of the above maybe you should consider NOT buying whistles you have never tried through the post.

The only thing for it is to go out and try whistles you come across and buy the one you like. Asking for recommendations here will only tell you what other people have, not what is a good whistle or what you will like. No whistle is perfect, some are bland and expensive, some are lively and cheap, some are in tune and some are not and you’ll find them all recommended here but there’s only one person who can decide which one does the things you want it to do.

Why buy a Chieftain if you can buy an Overton from Colin?

Good advice. Burkes sound great and are not touchy on the bell note or rough in the second octave (though the high B is still loud for me–on any D whistle). They’re easy players.

Hate to enter this thread late, but I have both whistles mentioned and it’s comparing two entirely different instruments…both with their own personalities and uses.

The Dixon Trad follows the tradition of whistles like Generations that are very easy-blowing, requiring very little push or they’re easily over-blown. With the Dixon trad you need to back off and control your tendency to push. It’s not exactly a session whistle. The one I have is extremely touchy in both octaves and requires a lot of restraint to play reasonably well.

The Chieftain, on the other hand, is made by low whistle player Phil Hardy, and is meant to be loud, fat and full, requiring a completely different approach to playing. It’s a whole other animal and a wonderful whistle for the right situations. The MOST IMPORTANT thing about the Chieftain is to make sure it’s nice and warm before playing. It’s amazing how difficult it is to play cold as opposed to warm. When it’s warm, the sound comes into its own and the second octave that’s nearly impossible when cold, becomes clear, strong, and pretty easy to play with some push. When it’s cold, you’ll get screeching, double notes, and raspy high G, A, and B notes. Once warm, you don’t need as strong a push to hit those upper second octave notes clearly and they sing out. But you still need to maintain a good concentrated push of air. I had issues with it at first and contacted Phil for some help. He told me to make sure it’s warm and maintain a good push of air from the belly. In his words, “If you’ve been used to easy-blowers, you have your work cut out for you but it’ll be worth it.” With some practice, I finally got the hang of it and love the whistle for loud sessions, outdoor gigs, etc. I was just so used to playing my Burkes, Sindt, and Reyburn for so long (easy blowers), I had to learn how to play the Chieftain.

As has been mentioned, I doubt there’s anything wrong with your Chieftain. It just takes getting used to. If you haven’t already done so, it’ll help to soak it in water and some dish washing liquid like Dawn to make sure the airway is clean and void of any debris and/or oils from manufacturing. I got mine new, and to my disappointment discovered it contained a lot of metal shavings and fragments in the tube and some in the airway. After removing all that junk, it was much easier to play! Sure glad I didn’t ingest any of it. I contacted Phil to let him know and he apologized profusely, saying it must have been one that slipped through final inspection.

Spot on Ballyshannon! You managed to describe the Chieftains quirks precisely and I totally agree that it is a truly wonderful whistle. It may take some time to tame it, but once you’ve done that the tone is really warm with a fair bit of chiff.

Habo; -Stick with the Chieftain for a while and try to work a bit on it. You may find that you don’t want to part with it once you’ve learned how to play it… :smiley:

Slán,
Anders

I am slowly beginning to understand the situation. It seems a matter of “horses for courses.” There are different whistles for different situations. I have soldiered on with the Chieftain and now I can get the second octive without a lot of trouble. And I will be experimenting today with warming it up as the second octive sounds a bit rough.

I would now like to ask this: WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT WHISTLE ALL ABOUT.

  1. What is a session whistle
  2. Why do some have narrow bores
  3. What are the characteristics of various the materials whistles are made out of, (brass, alloy, wood)

I do not have a music shop locally which deals in any whistles other than the cheaper tin type … and I doubt they know anything about the whistles they are selling, hence my questions.

There are way too many choices out there!

Session whistles: Whistles designed for more volume to hold their own with many different instruments in large sessions. Most session whistles will have a larger bore than trads/narrow bores. But be careful here. When playing in sessions, the idea is to fit in and not dominate unless doing a solo. That’s why experienced session players will have a few different whistles and use them wisely. Otherwise, you may be asked to “sit the next one out”…and leave you sitting it out. Popular “session” whistles would be the Burke Sessions, Reyburn Session D, Susato D, Chieftain, Overton, etc, but truthfully I’ve seen just about everything used in session. Whatever works in a given session environment could be termed a “session” whistle.

Narrow bores: Whistles with slightly lower volume than the session whistles and designed for more all-around playing and playing relatively quietly at home. As the name implies, these whistles in general have a smaller diameter tube with a smaller air window than session whistles. As a result, they’re quieter, the tone is not quite as full or deep, and the high end is usually more “bird-like” (for lack of a better term) and sweeter. Just make sure you get a well-designed whistle that doesn’t have a shrill high end (this applies to ANY whistle).

I might mention here that some players prefer a larger or smaller diameter tube for comfort and playability depending on hand/finger size.

Since there are many things that can affect tonal characteristics such as fipple design and construction which shapes the tone, and tube diameter, the following are very general observations regarding materials. I’m sure whistle makers will want to expand or amend these observations.
Brass: Usually a warmer and sweeter tone than other metals
Aluminum: Usually produces a bright, round tone with depth. Some whistles are made of an alloy (mixture of metals) and I haven’t heard one yet I like or sounds like an Irish whistle. But then I haven’t heard them all. The ones I’ve heard sound hard with no real tonal character or personality…just notes.
Wood: More complex tone with deeper tonal qualities than metal. Wood usually sounds like wood (now there’s a real revelation!), although I’ve played some wood whistles that went above and beyond and actually transcended the “wood” sound, sounding more like a traditional whistle.
Composite: Tonal characteristics much like wood but without the maintenance. I have a Burke composite C that’s one of the best sounding whistles I’ve ever owned or played. You can hear a quick track on Clips N Snips “Original” section. It’s the first track in the list, “Mist O’er the Shannon”.
Nickel (found on Generations and some other trads): The only nickel whistles I’ve played are Generations. They have the brightness of aluminum but with a slightly “darker” tone and more depth than brass. I have a tweaked nickel Gen Eb with red tip that’s simply amazing. It’s a treat to play this whistle.
Copper: I’ve owned and have made copper whistles and they tend to sound a bit “hard” to me and “non-whistle”-like. Copper is also heavy and can become uncomfortable when playing for a while. Sandy Jasper, maker of Elfsong Whistles, is making some very good sounding copper whistles but they’re still a bit heavy.
Polymer/Plastic: I’ve heard excellent ones and I’ve heard poor ones. When one mentions plastic whistle, “recorder” comes to mind. But don’t think all plastic whistles are crap. Susato and Dixon are considered the best of the plastic/polymer whistles and for good reason…they’re simply very good whistles. I haven’t checked but they could very well be the only plastic whistles in production. I have a standard bore Susato D and love it. It doesn’t have the tonal complexity of more traditional materials but it’s pure with dead-on intonation, sounds like a whistle…not a recorder, can be played sweetly or loudly with good volume, and is reliable. I also have a Dixon polymer tunable D with a wonderful tone. It just can’t be pushed as much as the Susato. Nice, sweet second octave.
PVC/CPVC: It’s amazing what can be done with PVC. As with any whistle, no matter what material is used for the tube, the mouthpiece design and construction is what makes and shapes the sound. I’ve heard PVC whistles that sound absolutely horrible. I’ve also head some that contend with the best of the best due to the design. It’s all in the fipple design and wall thickness. James Becker is currently making some fine non tunable PVC whistles for unbelievably low prices. I have his Eb, D, C, and A, and they’re surprisingly good. The Eb is particularly good, and the D is excellent. PVC usually sounds strong and pure, like the Susatos.

Also, each material has its own maintenance requirements. Metal whistles need warming up before playing. Wood whistles usually require periodic maintenance to keep the wood from cracking. The exception here are the Sweetheart Pros that are actually laminates and need no maintenance, although you do need to separate the head from the tube after playing because of the cork slide lining. I don’t usually have to warm up my Burke composite, Susato, PVC, or plastic whistles. I just soak them in soapy water on occasion to clean them out.

Hope this helps some.

Just to add to that nice summary Ballyshannon -

  • Under the polymer/plastic whistles, some wonderful delrin (a brand name acetal resin or polycetal) whistles are made. I have a delrin whistle by Paul Busman and delrin whistles by Chris Abell that are terrific. Delrin is the material of which many high end whistles’ fipples are made.

  • Wood (and Paul and Loren would likely chime in here) is not a homogeneous category, although I agree that the voicing and other elements of making the whistle are more important than the material. There may be some inate tonal differences, all else being equal, between, e.g., African blackwood and boxwood or red lancewood, etc.

Philo

My Chieftain G does take a lot of air and it took some getting used to. If you decide totry another, I always put in my vote for a Tommy Martin’s Thornton whistle http://www.thorntonwhistles.info/index.html or a Hudson Winds whistle http://www.hudsonwinds.com/index.html. They are my favorites. Thornton’s sound beautiful (i can’t even describe how perfect they sound), but are a bit quieter. Hudson’s are also sweet, but are louder (good in a session).