Vinny… you forgot. And this is not the elder’s thread, you lost your way again. Now be a nice patient, and gulp these nice cutie pills, thaaat’s it :roll:
On 2002-12-08 22:32, The Whistling Elf wrote:
Personally, I usually refer to them as Irish Whistles or Irish TinWhistles, rarely as TinWhistles, but when talking with other ‘whistle folk,’ I’ll use plain ol’ Whistle. Never Pennywhistle, simply b/c I feel it’s a royal mouthful to try to get out at once. lol. Irish Whistle sits much better on the tongue IMO, and you have Irish Flutes and Irish Fiddles, so why not Irish Whistles?
But why? The original whistles and flutes devised in the 19th century were all English, so maybe they should be “English Whistles” (don’t know about fiddles). They are most commonly seen these days as whistles for Irish music, but they are also regularly used for Scottish, English, Breton, Cornish and Welsh music. Most whistles today are either made in the USA or the UK, so that hasn’t changed.
I’d just go with “whistle” - I usually say “high/soprano whistle” or “low whistle”.
Quite so Nick. And probably the most commercially successful whistle music to date remains kwela, not Irish or even ‘celtic’ music. Let’s retain (or acquire?) a sense of historical perspective.
On 2002-12-10 02:56, Zubivka wrote:
Nota is cool, albeit negative.
So I’ll keep my definition of “reedless chalumeau” for myself, an be alone to call the reedless, mouth-blown-from-fipple-end, nine-hole (out of which 6 for tones) tube thingie a > zubivka> .
Now, could one of you native anglo-speaking scholarly pies explain how this strange word “recorder” got coined (presumably for more than a penny) ?
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-12-10 02:58 ]
It’s from the Italian word “ricordo,” but I’m afraid I can’t remember what it means. If I get a chance, I’ll look it up in one of my dusty recorder books later. For some reason we picked up on the Italian name for the instrument rather than the French or German.
Redwolf
On 2002-12-10 10:40, Redwolf wrote:
On 2002-12-10 02:56, Zubivka wrote:
Nota is cool, albeit negative.
So I’ll keep my definition of “reedless chalumeau” for myself, an be alone to call the reedless, mouth-blown-from-fipple-end, nine-hole (out of which 6 for tones) tube thingie a > zubivka> .
Now, could one of you native anglo-speaking scholarly pies explain how this strange word “recorder” got coined (presumably for more than a penny) ?
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-12-10 02:58 ]
It’s from the Italian word “ricordo,” but I’m afraid I can’t remember what it means. If I get a chance, I’ll look it up in one of my dusty recorder books later. For some reason we picked up on the Italian name for the instrument rather than the French or German.
Redwolf
Found some more info on-line (which, I’m afraid, simply confuses the matter even further). This is from a longer article, the entire text for which is linked below, if you’re terribly curious 
"It has long been suggested that the earliest reference to the recorder is provided by the household accounts of the Earl of Derby (later King Henry IV) for 1388 which mention i. fistula in nomine Ricordo, a flute called a Ricordo. Trowell (1957) remarks
that ricordo is Italian for a “remembrance, souvenir, keepsake, memento, sign of friend-ship, token”, derived from the Latin
recordari (to remember), and notes further that during the Middle Ages, the gift of a musical instrument was a recognised
custom of civility and a means to obtaining a reward, and indeed an excellent ‘memento’ of favours received or expected.
Although the Italian origin of ricordo itself has been questioned (Bornstein 1987: 45-56; Griscom & Lasocki 1994: 19),
Higbee (1965: 128) supports Trowell’s derivation of ‘recorder’ from a form of the Latin recordari. Wright (1965: 341)
suggests an origin from the English ‘to record’, meaning to memorise, to recall, to practice and to recite, to sing or to play
and thus the Earl of Derby’s ricordo may represent no more than an attempt to render a pre-existing English word ‘recorder’ in
a Latin document.More recently, Anthony Rowland-Jones (1999c, in press; 2000, in press) has uncovered evidence that the future Henry IV
really did have a new-fangled duct-flute bought for him in London at a cost of around £500 in present day equivalence. An
examination of the original accounts document (DL 28 1/2) in the Public Record Office in London shows that hitherto the entry
in question has been completely mistranscribed: it in fact reads as follows:Et pro j fistula nomine Recordo— empta London’ pro domino iij s iij d
The superscript horizontal line following the ‘o’ is an abbreviation for ‘ur’ in English court hand. Thus although the critical word
looks like ‘Recordo’ it should really be rendered ‘Recordour’ and the entire entry should translated:‘and for one flute by name of Recordour bought in London for my lord, three shillings and four pence’.
Rowland-Jones (loc. cit) points out that wheras the word ‘fistula’ (flute) is treated as a common noun, ‘Recordour’ is treated as
if it were a proper noun like ‘London’, and that it is qualified by the word ‘nomine’. This would seem to indicate that the word
(and probably the recorder itself) was new to the language or at least unfamiliar.It is possible that the recorder purchased on behalf of the Earl of Derby was for his own use. The future Henry IV was a keen
amateur musician (Trowell 1957). Indeed, a piece in the early 15th-century Old Hall manuscript is ascribed ‘Roy Henry’,
though the latter might refer to his more famous son who became Henry V. It is tempting to think of the Earl of Derby playing
music with his wife. Among the purchases ‘pro domina’ for the Countess of Derby are strings and pegs, presumably for her
gittern.The words ‘recorderis’, ‘recorders’, ‘recorde’, ‘recordour’, ‘recordres’, ‘recordys’ appear in a number of fifteenth and early sixteenth-century sources."
Probably more than you ever wanted to know! 
Redwolf
Wow! Thanks Redwolf for this brilliant, er, posting!
And so much in the great C&F tradition of confusing the matters a bit more!
At least, now I know why I play a whistle. Tube thing. Zubivka. Fipple flute. Illiterate’s recordour.
Whew!
MY dusty recorder book (somewhere in the attic of my mind) says that “recorder” is from a French word for “bird song”, meaning that they sound like birds (pace Olivier Messien), AND / OR they were used to teach melodies to birds in the Royal Court. Didn’t say what kind of birds, nudge nudge, wink wink.
Fistula? HMMNN.
“Ricordo” in Italian means the thing you play on a phonogragho.
Vinny
(At least Z. says I am)
In a pub last nite, after we finished set, someone actually said the following after asking me about my instrument:
“That whistle looks funny. The whistle I have really looks different. Its the kind the old policemen used to have.” I studied her face, trying to see if it was a joke but saw no mirth.
I swear this is true. So, everything may well be in a name. I suddenly wished I had just said flute. I mumbled something about IRISH whistle then returned to Guiness..
Wow… I think I almost prefer having it referred to as a pipe…
On 2002-12-10 14:07, ELLIOTT wrote:
Whew!
MY dusty recorder book (somewhere in the attic of my mind) says that “recorder” is from a French word for “bird song”, meaning that they sound like birds (pace Olivier Messien), AND / OR they were used to teach melodies to birds in the Royal Court.
Strange. No identifiable French root ; the latin “recordere” kept sterile in French. And French doesn’t use a word even remotely connected to “recordeur”, hence my question in the first place. We mostly use “flûte à bec”, sometimes the old-fashioned & rather uppety “flageolet”. The old and folksy “pipeau” (peepoh…) seems to refer more to what we’d call a whistle here. I never encountered anything else in our classic litterature.
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-12-10 15:12 ]
On 2002-12-10 09:01, nickt wrote:
They are most commonly seen these days as whistles for Irish music, but they are also regularly used for Scottish, English, Breton, Cornish and Welsh music. Most whistles today are either made in the USA or the UK, so that hasn’t changed.
Thanks nick, I was gonna say something myself… 
Scottish pennywhistle.
I just generally refer to them as whistles myself. BTW, how exactly do you pronounce flagolet? Is it flaggge o let or flagolet as in flag?
(should be) approx. Flah-jo-lèh
but not Fla-Djo-Laye
Zubivka - you mean people LIE? (sob, choke)?
I’ve always heard it as: fla-ji-LET, the “a” as in “hammer”, or, in some moods, fla- juh-LET or fla-jo-LET. Y’know, that schwa thingie.
On 2002-12-10 15:02, The Weekenders wrote:
In a pub last nite, after we finished set, someone actually said the following after asking me about my instrument:“That whistle looks funny. The whistle I have really looks different. Its the kind the old policemen used to have.” I studied her face, trying to see if it was a joke but saw no mirth.
I swear this is true. So, everything may well be in a name. I suddenly wished I had just said flute. I mumbled something about IRISH whistle then returned to Guiness..
Omigod! Not to cast aspersions on people of the fair-haired persuasion, but that sounds like a blond joke…or at the very least, a Valley Girl joke! Did she, at any point, say “fer shure” or toss her head from side to side as if she were trying to knock herself out with her hair?
A police whistle…saints preserve us!
Redwolf
Like I say again, it makes me glad everyone (in my area) seems to refer to it as a pipe or a flute…
Because of the history of the instrument, a Celtic inspired name would be appropriate. Someone needs to rename it Celtophone, Yrwyddgrug or something.
Yesterday, I was complimenting my worship pastor on his selection of Contemporary Christmas music. Two songs feature the (insert name of the endblown fipple flute family instrument here). He asked me to play the (sic) whistle parts! This is great, as we’ve never incorporated it in a service before. He said he has the charts but they were marked “RECORDER.” I replied, “Blasphemy!” but I don’t think he got it.
See in Gaelic, Its a Feadag {fedag].
flute, whistle,Or the third week in Febuary. Work that one out!
Wiz
On 2002-12-11 12:26, wizzy wrote:
See in Gaelic, Its a Feadag {fedag].
flute, whistle,Or the third week in Febuary. Work that one out!
Wiz
I can see it now…
Q: What are you playing?
A: The third week of February.
Q: I asked WHAT not WHEN, you stupid musician!
