Just reading thru the threads - today and years past .. the term “pennywhistle” seems like a good enough label - there is history to it - enough for the term to be shrouded in uncertainty .. penny . as in price? Penny .. as in what you get busking with it? Maybe some one named “Penny” made them .. who knows.
Tin Whistle? - I have one made by the Clarke company .. but as it turns out the “tin” part of it is only a plating on steel sheet! ?? Well … the “tin-cans” that revolutionized preserved food storage and retail are exactly the same stuff - not much tin???
Not much tin .. not much penny …
Are they “flageolets” ?? eeeeeuuuuuwww! sounds like a bizarr religious pain causing mechanism!! (My mind flees to scenes from monty python’s holy grail involving lumps of wood and foreheads …)
QUESTION CHIFFERS! (?)
If there was to be a BETTER name for our favourite tweety friend -
Well Clarke was an Engishman i think, however most seem to relate this whistle to Irish folk.
What do the french call them? Breton whistle?
I guess you could call them just “Folk whistle”, but there again it’s not only folk music played on them.
I think " Oz Whistle" is a great name for the ones you make Well they are made in Australia
How about: “Soprano Diatonic Fipple Flute for Folk Music” Short for it could be, “Sdfffm…” (the m should be slightly elongated) which is not too difficult to pronounce.
I think that Peter and Mitch raise an interesting cultural issue, and one that clearly have managed to resolve.
It seems to me that in some respects we are victims of our own success. The whistle can now be found in most music shops with an array of different products available. However (and noticeably), none of them will be made of tin and all of them will cost more than a penny. Consequently, it seems a little ridiculous to continue using the term “tin” or “penny” whistle.
Even the term “whistle” is dubious as how can we distinguish our instrument from the tool used in a school playground or a football field?
Historically there have been attempts to describe it as a flageolet, but this is technically incorrect. The original flageolets had four holes on top and two below (the latter being used for the thumbs). Modern theory asserts that the “tin” whistle superseded the flageolet and many academics argue that it is incorrect to describe the whistle as a flageolet.
Why do we need a name change? Well, the guitar of today bares little similarity to the guitarra or kithara of yesteryear. Similarly, the clarinet evolved out of the chalumeau. It therefore seems to me that to call our beloved whistle a “tin” whistle, a “penny” whistle or even a flageolet is like calling a madolin, a lute - technically correct, but failing dismally in its description.
A more accurate description must surely be to call it a fipple flute - and, for the record something that is quite distinct from the vertical flute (more usually associated with the the xiao, the danso, the kaval, the ney, the quena, and the shakuhachi).
So come on folks - let’s upgrade our instrument - call it by a name that more accurately describes it and at the same time gives it a revamp, an upgrade so we can be seen as the musicians we really are, with an instrument that can mix it with any of the more ‘orthodox’ instruments on the scene. Oh - and in case any consider me tubthumping for teh casue of the whistle? Wait till you see me bang the drum for the beautiful pibgorn!!!
Well I still think “pennywhistle” is a good, historically grounded, name for the instrument. The “penny” part refers not to the price but to the fact that for centuries it was a busker’s instrument, and still is in many cases; there’s a tradition there.
For that matter, my golf bag still contains “woods” even though clubs with persimmon heads are just about extinct, but the term survives anyway, and it evokes a tradition. So I don’t think “tin whistle” is ruled out because few, if any, whistles are made of tin. The names of things need not be merely descriptive.
Thanks for the insight, Peter.
I’ve seen both phrases before but I’m unsure of the meaning behind ‘Stain’ and ‘Mohr’. I’ve deduced from seeing ‘mohr’ or ‘mor’ (I’m guessing the “h” determines masculine or feminine?) in sentences that it seems to be an indicator of size (i.e. small or little) but I’m not sure of that. Would you mind shedding some light on that?
This will change though. For example, I predict virtual or MIDI-based tin whistles will eventually take hold (you’ll get it as a download on your iPhone, so long as you keep paying your subscription fees). So should the naming be based upon conspicuous traits or historical lineage or…? You’ll also have to demonstrate usage to get it entered into the OED, although I don’t believe that’s a problem–Dale just gets everyone here to use the new word. The real issue is widespread adoption.
Well I like the name Pennywhistle. I always assumed it was because it was a cheap to afford instrument costing something like a penny.
This may be very important historically, I mean if the pennywhistle cost 1/4 of a penny, we’d be calling it a Farthingwhistle or even worse (or better depending upon your point of view), if the whistle cost four pence , we’d be calling it a Groatwhistle - not to be confused with goatherders calling their flock.
I suggest we dispense with all the historical precedents and bring things into the present. We should name this instrument after the one who brought us all together in this space. Let’s call it a Dale or Dalewhistle. I would have suggested the Wiselywhistle but since he’s doing that whole Madonna/Cher thing, you know…
For you sticklers, here’s a rough pronunciation guide, using what might be Midwestern US pronunciation values in the spelling, but hoping the renderings work for all:
Feadóg: “FA dhogue” (like “rogue”)
Feadán: “FA dhawn” (like, well, “dawn”)
Feadóg mhór: “FA dhogue WORE”
Feadóg stain: “FA dhogue STAN” (sorta like “hand”)
Feadánaí: “FA dhawn ee” (I’ve seen this one for fluteplayers)
Feadánach “FA dhawn ukh” (“u” meaning a schwa sound)
Think of the “dh” as almost like the “th” in “this”, but still stopped like a “D”. Remember that the fáda marks don’t indicate stress; they indicate vowel length, basically. Stress in noncompound words is reliably on the first syllable.
But if you’re buying a Feadóg Brand whistle in the States, you better say “FEE-dawg” or they won’t know what on Earth you mean.
Hmm… I’m having trouble deciding if great lakes is the same as the midwestern US you speak of as I know there’s a difference from a MI accent to anywhere else in the midwest…
Anyway, yeah, we need a new name… when people hear “whistle” what are they gonna think of? And calling a Burke or Alba a pennywhistle isn’t really all that fitting. Flute came from the Latin word “Flatus” so what could the new name for the whistle be… hmmmmm…
No need to bang any drums for pibgyrn, they make quite enough racket on their own. Drum with…that’d work! BTW, last time I played mine was in concert (well…) with four others - in St Asaph Cathedral of all places. For the record, the other perpetrators were Stephen Rees, Andy MacLauchlin, Patrick Rimes and Hefin Jones. We even got applauded! (Maybe due to a shortage of rotten eggs in such a venue…)
On topic, I would tend to vote for plain “whistle” on grounds others have already covered about composition and price and despite the potential confusion with e.g. referees’ whistles and the like, and turn of phrase does the same to avoid confusion with lip-whistling. Context (i.e. to do with music) tends to make it clear that the latter are not what one means. Of course, that’s all well and good for English - most of the Romance languages don’t have separate words for whistles - they are all “flutes” (read cognate equivalent), usually with some kind of qualifier such as “douce/dolce/dulce” or “traversiere/traverso” etc. or may have a regional dialect name (viz the Galician usages on the Caride website I linked on The List over on the Flute Forum today).
Welsh seems to be developing a usage, not having a reliably established historic one - “chwiban” or “chwibanogl” seem to be in contention.
Well they are made in Australia 
!