Otter's Holt e to B

Hard for me to get a clean e to B across the break in this tune - feels like I have to adjust embouchure alot? Love the tune.

Thanks so much!

Whoops I was actually working on the e to B in A part of George White’s - sorry about that. . . .

I’d guess the challenge of f# to B (Otter’s Holt) and e to B (George Whyte’s) are pretty similar anyway. :slight_smile:

Say Bill, did you see this recent thread over in the Whistle forum? Maybe you can add something about your recording:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=767626

On a related note, check out Martin Rochford playing Otter’s Holt:
http://claremusic.tripod.com/sound/m_roch_fidd.au

from this page:
http://claremusic.tripod.com/martin_rochford.htm

Whoops I was actually working on the e to B in A part of George White’s - sorry about that. . . .

What exactly happens? Do you tend to accidentally play the B in the upper octave? If you don’t belong to the all-tonguing-is-bad camp, you might try tonguing the lower-octave B’s. Or play the tune in D. :stuck_out_tongue:

My parents made me go to all-tonguing-is-bad camp one Summer. The counsellors confiscated my Blow-Pops!

I still believe a little tonguing is not necessarily a bad thing. Try what Ro3b suggests. Cheers,

Rob

It probably is an embouchure/breath pressure thing. Have a go at the same passages on whistle, slow them down a bit, don’t tongue the drops, keep 'em slurred and analyse what you have to do (i.e. observe all aspects of physical input to playing) to get them clean. Then go back to the flute and apply the same process. Obviously on whistle it must all be done with breath pressure; on flute there must also be some embouchure adjustment or intonation will suffer. Just practice it slowly (like for any other specific problem), then gradually expand the context and increase the speed. It really shouldn’t be that difficult.

To me, this is one of those cases where it helps to close off the end of the note in the second octave (the e in George White’s) before starting the note in the first octave (B in this case). Kevin Crawford refers to this as “stopping in mid-flight,” or at least he did in a class I took from him about 8 years ago. When going from the second octave down to the first, it’s usually easier to make a clean transition if you put an end to the note in the second octave, either by throttling it with a glottal or using your tongue, and then you launch afresh into the following note in the first octave. This is especially true when you’re diving down exactly one octave, such as from the second-octave e directly to the first-octave E. The stop is brief and fairly subtle. Actually, the Otter’s Holt is a good one to practice this on, since you want that high f# to be emphatic and short anyway, it’s a feature of the tune.

Thanks to all of you for the great tips and ideas. And thanks to William Bajzek for the link to the music of Martin Rochford - I love his version of Otter’s Holt and am trying to work it on to the flute. Lots of upper octave arpeggios giving me a it of a challenge though

All the best,

Bill Coulter

with no respect to mr. crawford, this sounds like a stop gap solution. i am sure it ends up creating a good melodic effect, but i cant imagine very time you wanted to play such note combinations that it would be appropriate. i think it would be a good idea to try and be able to hit any note from any other note as well as be able to do as kevin crawford suggests, and then make a decision, on a case by case basis, how you want to approach those particular notes.

i myself usually slur up and down the octave or in any interval. if you cannot, then it might do some good to work on it. i am not very fond of exercises, but i have one that i have found to be helpful:

  1. with the flute away from your face, pout your lips as much as you can, as if you were paris hilton or the like. put the flute up to your face, and try to blow a second octave b (which shouldnt work). pull back the corners of your mouth until you get a b. it is very important that you pull only the corners and nothing else. your b will probably sound horrendous, but for this exercise, this is ideal.

  2. from this horrendous sounding, overly tight note, pull back the corners of your mouth until it drops the and stop. play with this until you can find the spot right before it drops down the octave and then get it to drop down to the low B with imperceptible movement.

  3. try this with all the notes below it (b, a, g, f#, e, d). work on finding right where the notes drop to the octave.

the place right after the note changes the octave is what i find to be a nice place to “seat” my notes, because it allows me to jump up and down at the least movement of the corner of your lips. of course, as you get familiar with this, try to combine good tone with good flexibility. i find that you can tell if you are on the right track by playing a good, solid low D and popping the first finger. for me, when it pops the octave without any mouth movement and only finger movement, that i am in my favorite spot for the embouchure flexibility.

eventually, you will be able to hit any note from any other note, all with the twitch of the corner of your lips.

Like I said, though, it’s subtle…when I say “stop the note” I mean for just the briefest split second. Here’s how I play the A part of George White’s using this technique, it doesn’t break up the flow of the music at all. I’m putting the briefest stop at the end of those e’s before going down to the B. There’s no slurring here. I guess I do slur down when playing airs and probably some dance tunes as well, but in a tune like this I probably wouldn’t.

http://homepage.mac.com/bhurley/.Public/geowhite.mp3

At the risk of being a Lit major in the midst of all this good advice, it’s “with all due respect.” Unless, of course, Daiv, you don’t respect Mr. Crawford one little bit. Anyway, Brad seems to have the handle on it..

tough call, innit?
I was leaning slightly the other way.

i meant with no disrespect. thanks!