Well, fellow whistlers, my blow for Freedom of Speech here in Deadwood was a bust! They will be holding a hearing on March 11, to determine if they will give me a variance on the street entertainment ordinance so I can PLAY (not busk) my whistles on the streets of Deadwood this summer. The ironic thing is is that the gunslingers walked right throught their request to shoot up the streets and got their permit, but I get to have a hearing! Maybe I out to mount that sniper scope on top of my Generation B flat!
Through my years of being on a Planning Commission and City Council, there are two things these groups don’t want to see:
- a smart aleck - hold your tongue no matter how stupid they appear to be (and actually are!)
- a milque toast - if they think they can walk all over you they certainly will
My advice would be to go to the City Clerk’s office and get a copy of the city code so that way you know exactly why you need a variance from that code. Then try to find other people who have successfully obtained variances. If the City Clerk is not a toad she/he will be able to quickly tell you who they were and where to find them.
Hope this helps a little!
Hi Anna
Here in Windsor and in the rest of the province of Ontario, a woman has the right to bear breasts and whistles in public!
Now that would really set the DEADheadWOOD council on their fat as****!
Mark
On 2002-02-26 07:07, MarkB wrote:
Hi AnnaHere in Windsor and in the rest of the province of Ontario, a woman has the right to bear breasts and whistles in public!
I believe they have always had the right to bear breasts but only recently obtained the right to bare them in public. A privilege which seems to be underutilized as far as I can see. I also think that it’s correct that they can bear whistles and also bare them and they can bear bare whistles. They can’t bear bare bears though. Strictly forbidden.
Steve
On 2002-02-26 10:49, SteveK wrote:
I believe they have always had the right to bear breasts but only recently obtained the right to bare them in public. A privilege which seems to be underutilized as far as I can see. I also think that it’s correct that they can bear whistles and also bare them and they can bear bare whistles. They can’t bear bare bears though. Strictly forbidden.
I love this forum, I really do…
With the right to bear and bare whatever I wish,
Andrea ~*~
GO ANNA!! Down with Deadwood politics!
[ This Message was edited by: aderyn_cyrdd on 2002-02-26 11:01 ]
I was reading the city ordinance and it seems whistles and guns, firearms, pistols or weapons of any kind, character, description, other equipment or personal property causing loud noises or capable of causing loud noises or other disturbances are all lumped into one category…and to make it even more ridiculous “shall be limited to ten minutes and only one day per permit” The NWA is much closer to actually than we think!
Free Deadwood for Whistlers!
Hey Anna,
Surely that would be referring to referee-type whistles, not pennywhistles? I would think 10 minutes on one of those would be enough for a lifetime!
After all, they don’t ban Trumpets, Trombones, tubas etc. Maybe if it falls through you could protest by playing a tuba on the town hall steps!
Quote:
other equipment or personal property causing loud noises or capable of causing loud noises or other disturbances are all lumped into one category…and to make it even more ridiculous “shall be limited to ten minutes and only one day per permit” The NWA is much closer to actually than we think!
Free Deadwood for Whistlers!
Let it shine! Anna “Dances with Weasels” Martinez
Reply:
First, wiavers and disclaimers. PLEASE NOTE:
Here’s my personal opinion (not advice)
Looking at this for a constitutional law point of view,in order to pursue a constitutional claim, you’d have to find a showing of state action/government action. Certainly government action exists here in that the planning commition is an arm of the City government. The next issue is to determine what type of right is involved. For most rights, the courts would employ a “rational basis” test which has the result that virtually every gov’t action that has a rational basis would be sustained. Howver, if you are talking about a first amendment right, then the courts would apply the “strict scrutiny” test - which is a little bit tougher for a gov’t arm to justify as they look at the right vs. the scope of the law that infringes upon that right. Although the First Amendment only applies to the Federal Government, it does apply to the states via the 14th Amendment.
Perhaps you may want to see if variances have been given to the ordinances, how often and for what. For example, are they discriminating against one type of noise vs. another thereby always allowing “x” kind of noise excessively but always precluding “y” kind of noise? Did they provide a rationale for it in the council meeting record? It may be justifiable - alot will lie in the facts.
Sounds like a fun project to work on.
Good luck!
P.S. The person who posted to two step advice above is correct. A respectful “cool head” armed with the facts and law will go far. You can typically gain more using honey than vinegar.
Cheers.
[ This Message was edited by: Glengary on 2002-02-26 11:48 ]
Anna,
Maybe,
You play a fipple flute that doesn’t make a loud noise, it makes music, but not in any thing near the decible level of the other items mentioned (guns, firearms, weapons). It sounds like the ordinance is might include starter guns, cap pistols, etc not musical instruments. The Other Disturbance clause is too vague if its not closely associated with the bang-bang noise makers listed.
So as you approach the hearing you may want to do so from the point of clarifying that the Whistle is a police, or air whistle, and not a flute of normal musical instrument volume. Otherwise they would have included the words ‘musical instrument’ so that instruments much louder than a tinwhistle would have to be included, (trumpet, trombone, tuba). Getting the clarification, will save you time later, because it puts it on record weather musical instruments are included or not.
I’m not a lawyer by any means, but as a normal citizen, if I read the ordinance, I’d assume it was for very loud bangs, police whistles, air whistles, etc which would normally require ear protection. If the counsel didn’t mean that it would have been easy for them to word the ordinance differently to include music and instruments.
Like I said I’m not a lawyer, you might want to check with one along these lines.
Hope you get more chances to …
On 2002-02-26 14:52, LeeMarsh wrote:
I’m not a lawyer by any means, but as a normal citizen, . . .
Lee! For shame! you’re not ‘a normal’ anything! You’re a rare and wonderful critter and don’t you forget it!
What really frosts my cookies is the casinos broadcasting at top volume all that country/ western junk all the time, even after the 10PM moise ordinance is up! As though one itty bitty tin whistle is that loud! So much hassle, so much energy…
Anna,
You don’t play a whistle, you play a flagolet or a fipple flute therefore the ordinance does not apply to you. See how simple?
Ron
For a living in the town that kicked the Crow Dog murder trial to the Supreme Court, and they decided Indians were really people, I find this report of the City Comissioners meeting pretty dang funny! Don’t I love it, being the Anonyous Whistler!
Deadwood to pay for parking drainage solution
By SCOTT RANDOLPH, Black Hills Pioneer February 26, 2002
DEADWOOD - In addition to paying to have utility lines on the rear of buildings facing Historic Main Street moved underground, the city is solving drainage problems for the private parking areas behind the buildings.
Last night at the city board’s regular meeting a motion passed to have Arleth and Assoc. begin work on designing and planning drainage improvements at a cost of $5,000.
The drainage issues came up in meetings with casino owners over the existing plans to move the utility lines underground, said Historic Preservation Officer Jim Wilson.
A combination of grade work along with storm sewers and lines is expected to be in the final plan for the project.
At last week’s meeting, the board pushed back the timing for bid process for the Back of Main Street Project due to additional work which came up with casino owners and Wilson.
On another issue involving city work, the board approved two different measures relating to land at 27 Forest Ave., now owned by the city on which a house was demolished.
First, the board approved having Bearlodge Ltd., the firm of engineer Ralph Goodson, begin soil testing and planning for a retaining wall on the property.
Second, at the suggestion of Superintendent of Public Works Tom Pascoe, the board voted to surplus the lot and put it up for sale. Pascoe said he had several people approach him expressing interest in the lot.
The next step in the sale process is for a committee of “freeholders” made up of Mayor Francis Toscana and commissioners Ron Island and Bruce Oberlander to put a price on the lot which will then be used in either an auction or sealed bid sale.
In other business, the board:
-
Scheduled a public hearing on a request to allow a person to play Irish Whistle on Main Street in the summer;
-
Told Larry Soller and Rick Franco, who dress in western costumes and walk Main Street in the summer months, they did not need special permits to carry replica firearms that do not fire;
-
Approved an all-night softball tournament for the ball field at the Rodeo Grounds for the Deadwood-Lead Men’s Softball League on May 31 and June 1;
-
Approved a special malt beverage license for the days of league play at the ballfield concession stand for the men’s softball league for this summer;
-
Set a public hearing for March 11 on a request for street closures for concerts this summer by the Northern Hills Community Band;
-
Gave permission for Public Works Department employees Bill Burleson and Forrest Cain to attend a Concrete Conference to be held on March 1 in Rapid City at a cost of $95 each plus use of the city van for transportation;
-
Gave permission to surplus the old Athey Snow Loader which has been replaced by a new model. The snow loader is used on wind rows of snow to load the snow into trucks to be hauled away;
-
Rejected a reserved residential parking permit on the recommendation of the city’s parking and transportation committee because the residence in question does not have any street frontage;
-
Heard from Oberlander that he intends to schedule a meeting of interested parents and youth to look into public interest for a skate board park. Previous interest indicated a willingness of local residents to participate in fund raising for such a park to be located near the Engine House at the Sherman Street Parking Lot, said Oberlander; and,
-
Noted that separate meetings of the zoning commission and historic commission will take place at City Hall on Wednesday at 5 p.m.
[ This Message was edited by: Anna Martinez on 2002-02-26 17:13 ]
Personally I just don’t see what the big deal is about having a street musician, such as yourself, play and busk. As long as you’re not being pushy or obnoxious to the passersby, and I can’t imagine you would be.
But I’ve noticed up here in the plains states that busking just isn’t done. It just doesn’t seem to be part of our culture. The Bismarck area was settled by Germans and Norwegians who view being a bum and begging as lower than low. I think the mindset of the commission might have some throw back to that old style of thought and they equate busking and begging as one and the same.
It ain’t easy I’m sure, but try to fight these people with honey.
Mary
This isn’t about busking, it’s about playing music, that’s all!
Sheeesh! Then what’s with these people!
Mary
On 2002-02-26 00:32, Anna Martinez wrote:
Well, fellow whistlers, my blow for Freedom of Speech here in Deadwood was a bust! They will be holding a hearing on March 11, to determine if they will give me a variance on the street entertainment ordinance so I can PLAY (not busk) my whistles on the streets of Deadwood this summer…
Anna, I think a “demonstration” for the committee is in order for the March 11 hearing. First, take out the biggest, loudest coaches whistle and blast their ears off! Then take your Bb and soulfully play “Amazing Grace”. Then explain that both are “whistles”, but one is a noisemaker while the other is a “musical instrument” that expresses emotions and trandscends the human experience! That should get them on freedom of speech AND religion (and what councilman will want to be on record as forbidding the playing of Amazing Grace?).
And if you have a few friends “planted” in the crowd to start singing along, so much the better!
ANNA I GOT IT!!!
Whenever one of the idjits comes to hassle and harry you, break into God Bless America, America the Beautiful (gorgeous on the whistle) or the aforementioned Amazing Grace, the Star Spangled Banner. . .
Learn to play We Shall Overcome, Die Gedanken Sindt [sic] Frei, Joe Hill, and such.
I’m still researching fares to NDak to see if they bother tourists as well as tax paying sitizens [sic].
Hey, how’s the ankle doing?
On 2002-02-27 15:02, tyghress wrote:
ANNA I GOT IT!!!Whenever one of the idjits comes to hassle and harry you, break into God Bless America, America the Beautiful (gorgeous on the whistle) or the aforementioned Amazing Grace, the Star Spangled Banner. . .
I am sure I will manage to get arrested at least once this summer! LOL! America the Beautiful is great on the whistle!
Learn to play We Shall Overcome, Die Gedanken Sindt [sic] Frei, Joe Hill, and such.
Oh yeah! Got all those down anyhow! I’m thinking we ought to invite a lot of Native American drums here, too! There is a state law on teh books that says if you see five Indians on your property, you can shoot 'em!
I’m still researching fares to NDak to see if they bother tourists as well as tax paying sitizens [sic].
South Dakota, darling! DakotaMouse lives NORTH of here! And yep, they do harrass the tourists, too! A friend of mine a re-enactor, made the mistake of accepting a dollar from some young ladies who asked him to pose for pitures with them. right after the accepted the dollar, a cop came up and started to hassle him, asked him if he asked for the dollar, the the cop went to to the girls and grilled them. Their reaction when we ran into them later was “Your cops are A$$holes around here!”
Hey, how’s the ankle doing?
I’m staggering around like a drunken sailor in a pair of ankle high workboots that are waterprood and insulated! Heheheh! And they have steel toes, too! Hehehee! All the better for kicking and stomping! Better yet, think I’ll go limp! heheheh!
I also have a casino owner friend with a stoop, who will claim me as an employee if I want to sit there with a tip jar! Hehehe! Love this new career as a monkey wrench thrower! I think I may change my name to Some Person, too! I think it’s funny that they didn’t use my name at all in the minutes of the meeting when it was on the agenda. The arguments I’m putting on my request for a variance on the ordinance (Thanks to C&Fers)are getting interesting! If this doesn’t work it’s time for a whistle in and civil disobedience!
Hi Anna
You stated that Kevin “Seems to Dance with anything” Costner owns a casino in town.
How about a letter writing campaign to Kevin Costner. And make him aware that his casino is ISN’T playing fair with one person in town.
Who’s Who in America gives this address for him.
TIG Productions
4000 Warner Blvd., Building 5
Burbank, Ca. 91522-001
Or from the Star Guide
Kevin Costner
2806 Nichols Canyon
Los Angeles, Ca. 90046
If he doesn’t reply how about a boycott of all his films, with whistle demonstrations at every new film opening.
Mark
\
“Everything flows and nothing abides; everything gives way and nothing stays fixed.” Heraclitus.
[ This Message was edited by: MarkB on 2002-03-02 15:41 ]