Ok…I guess first I need to get some of those quid things. Apparently they trade better for concertinas than dollar bills.
Way ahead of ya here.
Can someone tell me how much difference there will be between one with steel reeds and accourdian reeds? Does that mean if an accourdian had concertina reeds it would be ..uh…like on steroids?
And I’m thinking I need a g/d instrument?
One of the biggest differences between the sound of the accordian and the concertina is the number of reeds per note. Concertinas (except for an odd Stagi model) have one reed per note. Accordians (usually) have two, three, or more “voices” per note.
As for quality vs price, a restored Wheatsone or Lachenal can go for anywhere from US$1000 to lots more. The Stagis are around $300 to $700. Hohners around $200 to $250. Just remember you get what you pay for. There are several makers of anglo concertinas around the world. Most are selling new instruments for $1200 to $1700.
The professionals on Concertina.net can provide much more information about accordian vs concertina and steel vs brass reeds. I’ve read some of their exchanges and, lacking a physics or metalurgical background, only followed about half of it.
With a 30 button C/G Stagi, you should be able to play anything you like. Just don’t expect to be able to sell it and recoup your purchase price after a year.
Be careful though, you could end up like me. I fell in love with one I saw on a dealers web page and just had to have her. (48 button English by Lachenal). It’s a slippery slope looking at instruments when the credit cards are all paid off.
-Keith
Brass reeds “bend” flatter with increased pressure, steel reeds are more stable with pressure.
Whats the diff between the 20 and 30 button boxes and this thing I see, with what appears to be a zillion buttons.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16218&item=3722704095&rd=1
Me?
That’s not a concertina. It’s a bandoneon, the official instrument of Argentine tango. It gives me a headache just to look at those buttons.
g
What? Oh jeez. I just got off the phone with an old friend that I thought had a concertina that was his dad’s. Now I’m thinking its a …bandoleum? He even had books for it that thought it was a concertina. A Vitok-elsnic? I don’t remember much (years ago) but he had it repaired for his dad as a birthday present and the repairs were a good chunck of money. Oh well. He didn’t invite me to borrow it. I think it had…uhmmm…48 keys?
I’m finding them on ebay listed as bandoneom concertinas. They look like his dad’s did.
You’ll also find them listed as Chemnitzer Concertinas. A different type of instrument with very different musical notation. The instruction book I ran across was for 72 button and 120 button concertinas. I don’t know about their layout or sound since I didn’t read the book. There are a few sites on chemnitzers you can find easily with Google. I have heard they were popular in the northern parts of the midwest US a few decades ago.
-Keith
Nowadays, I play the Anglo concertina about as much as anything with our band. I use to have a 3 row Jones concertina with C drone and baby cry buttons (left thumb) but traded it in partial payment for my first set of uilleann pipes, years ago.
Now, I just play cheapy 2 rows-9 bellows concertinas. I have about 4 of them… Regoletta and Bastaris, tuned differently. The Bastaris sound the best to me. None of these sold for more than about $50-100 USD. The thing with these cheapies is that you’ll have to replace the rubber sleeves, under the buttons, with surgical tubing. This holds the buttons straight and gives them nice action.
These cheapies have reeds that are held in place with bees wax. I take a knife and cut the wax and pop the reeds out. I use a pointed solder gun, that’s shaped like a pencil, to melt the wax and reeds back in place.
Sliding some of the reeds over, flipping others over, and retuning a couple others…this changes the C row into a D row. So, for me, the push/pull is always the same, no matter what key I’m in, generally, for G, C D, A. Then, Em and Am are the same Cross fingering is a little different from one to another, but I get use to that.
I’m getting ready to change one into an A/D or A/C. Not sure which yet. I just know I could use an A real bad. Pulling on the D row gets most of the A notes in that key, but the push/pull is reversed for playing tunes.
I change concertinas when the key changes.
If you just want to goof around with a concertina, get a cheapie. An inexpensive Hohner, or even a no-name Chinese concertina. I’ve played a cheap Chinese one that sounded nicer than the Hohners, even though it had a few quirks.
Sure, a cheapie might not play perfectly after a while, but I don’t think you’ll be shy to open it up and fiddle a bit. If a reed isn’t being responsive, just bend it around a bit until it works. If it’s poking up too high over the lip of the hole it’s in, mash it down a bit. If it’s sunk into the hole, pry it up a bit. If you mess it up, big whoop. At least if you get a nice one later, you’ll have some experience with the guts of a concertina, and you’ll be comfortable tackling routine maintenance. That could pay for the cheapie right there.
Personally, I think it’s a bit silly to get an expensive, pro quality instrument when you’re not even sure if you’ll want to pursue it, and you don’t have any sensitivity developed yet to fairly judge what subtleties about the instrument suit you or not. Sure, if you have money coming out of your ears, splurge. And you’ll probably be able to sell it for nearly what you got it for (or maybe even more). But I think it’s better to have a beater instrument you don’t have to worry about when you’re a beginner or a dabbler. It’s a lot more stress-free. And you can always take the beater camping or whatever later.
The difference between concertina reeds and accordion reeds isn’t that important to a beginner, they both play fine. The concertina reeds will be a bit more responsive and work with lower bellows pressure, and they’ll have a “quaint” nasal, delicate sound to them that some people love. Others prefer the louder, honkier sound of modern accordion reeds.
There’s two sides to this. By your reasoning, I was silly buying a pro quality instrument as my first box. But I already played over a dozen different instruments, including harmonica and keyboards, so was I likely to give up on the concertina? Not a chance. I had played a borrowed two row Lachenal for two months so I did know that anglo would be for me. Also, the Lachenal was so unresponsive I knew I’d never learn properly without a good instrument. And even within two months, I’d outgrown a two row instrument. Anglos are structured like harmonicas and if you already play those the logic of the layout is obvious. If you play keyboards, you already have some of the dexterity needed. For someone with less background, your advice makes a lot of sense though. I’ve heard of people who can play one style of box but are completely lost on another. That puzzles me, but so do a lot of things.
I said it’d be silly “when you’re not even sure if you’ll want to pursue it,” and in the rest of the context, relating more to someone in VB’s position, who doesn’t even really know what a concertina is! I’ll stand by that. Although of course there will be exceptions, but I’m not going to add that disclaimer to everything I write here. If you’re an exception, you probably know it, as you did.
I do think you have to be selective in which “cheapie” you get…if you’re a complete musical neophyte, you need someone to help you get one that isn’t torture to play. But many of the greatest musicians throughout history started on junker instruments…how many times have you read about the crude, cheap, or jury-rigged instrument some musical icon started with?
I just find it a bit odd that whenever novices ask for advice, so many people steer them right into the semi-pro instruments. Sure, that seems like a good idea now to the people who kept up with the instrument, but I’m sure it doesn’t to the many many more who end up using them to collect dust bunnies in a corner. The same thing happened in the bodhrán thread. If you’re completely unfamiliar with the instrument, you don’t “need” to spend $300 on a handmade bodhrán. I’ve got a $40 used frame drum with a real skin head which sounds great, and included a case and tipper. Sure, it’s not really “fashionable” or the current “correct” bodhrán sound, and horrors, it has X shaped crossbars, but it’s responsive, easy to play, and very suitable for learning.
No need to take me that seriously Bones. You just set yourself up for a mock ticking off by using the word ‘silly.’
My post does contain a serious point, though, which is slightly in disagreement with you. It’s this. Once you decide that you are going to take an instrument seriously, I do think that you should buy the best that you can afford that is reasonably good value for the money. That might be after a month, six months or two years. Or it might never happen. I really do think a lot of people give up prematurely simply because they have a near unplayable instrument and don’t realise that the problem is the instrument and not them. Concertinas are high maintenance instruments and a cheap one might well fall apart before you know how serious you could be. Going very cheap can simply be a false economy; cheap concertinas have no resale value so you lose on every upgrade. I’ve been there with guitars and I’m really glad I adopted the buy quality approach after that.
Lorenzo’s $200 instruments would be a good compromise but note that Lorenzo modifies and repairs them himself so that might not be a good compromise for someone who can’t do the work for themselves. I do think you have a point but, facetiousness aside, I do think your reasons should be weighed against the other side. I think the ideal start is to do what I did, find someone who’ll loan you a cheapish but playable instrument.
I bit my tongue as hard as I could when I saw how poorly the thoughts were about Roundstone bodhrans. I have one of his tunables, and though I still have to use a watered sponge on the inside in real dry conditions, I still believe it has better sound than some much better thought of makers bodhrans that I have heard/played.
I just wish I could find the very first tipper that I learned bodhran on, that tipper could actually get an almost bodhran sound from a large pizza box.. The knobs had to be and inch or more in diameter and a knot in the perfect place for the notch in my thumb/forefinger. You sort of put all your fingers around the bottom knob and it was in the perfect position.
You had to remember to put some pressure with your thumb against the index finger or you would drop the tipper.
I still can’t find a tipper that would get the tonal variations that one did.
There is more to a bodhran than the goat skin, and more to concertinas than buttons, reeds and bellows.
There has to be a bit of magic between the player and the instrument as well..
Sure is. In the case of the bodhran, if you buy the wrong one there’s maggots as well.
Actually, I’ve never heard of maggots in a bodhran but they are a serious concern when buying djembes. They hide in the folds on the side and spread to the rest of your drums if you don’t spot the problem quickly.
Oh, my goodness, I sit next to our new percussionist who is featured on djembe!
I think I will move to the other side of the stage… 
I agree with you completely, it’s all about balance, there’s no one answer. But The “cheap” side is often in danger of being drowned in a sea of posts from semi-pro enthusiasts, so I feel it needs speaking for every once in a while. Especially when the initial poster makes it clear he wants one as cheap as possible for dabbling! In any case, whichever way you go will probably work out in the end.
“It’s the man, not the machine.” – Chuck Yeager
PS: Don’t ask me not to be serious. I’m always deadly serious. Even when I’m joking (which isn’t now, of course).