OT: Capital Punishment--The Catholic View

I was going to pop this post into the ongoing religious identification thread, but decided not to for two reasons:

  1. Several people have argued for more rationality in posting–go ahead and start a new thread rather than wander to far afield in an existing thread. That makes sense.

  2. This topic has come up several times, and each time it seems to me that there is considerable confusion and misunderstanding. Understandably so, in my view.

Thus, a new thread is born. What I’m quoting here is a brief editorial exchange that appeared in the 11/03 issue of First Things, a journal “whose purpose is to advance a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society.” The editor, Richard John Neuhaus, was formerly a Lutheran and is now a Catholic priest in New York. In the exchange, reference is made to the Dean of Villanova University’s School of Law (a major Catholic institution of higher education) as well as to Avery Cardinal Dulles. Cardinal Dulles is the only American cardinal that I’m aware of who received the red hat solely on the basis of his lifetime of scholarship, rather than as the archbishop of a large diocese. As such, both men’s views may be of interest, although they are only alluded to here. So here is the exchange:

Confusion on Capital Punishment

Richard John Neuhaus’ comments in While We’re At It (June/July) regarding capital punishment have caused me confusion. Father Neuhaus apparently agrees with Dean Mark A. Sargent of Villanova Law School that the Pope’s capital punishment teaching “[was] not made with the authority that requires the faithful obedience of all Catholics and Catholic institutions, unlike the Church’s position on abortion.”

While the status of the Church’s death penalty teaching is surely inferior to its position on abortion, does that fact permit disobedience? True, the capital punishment teaching was not promulgated ex cathedra. But Lumen Gentium states, “Religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra.” The Council further explains that “judgments made by [the pope] are [to be] sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.”

In the case of capital punishment, John Paul has unambiguously declared his mind and will in an encyclical, in several public addresses, and even in the official Catechism of the Catholic Church. I’ll acknowledge that the death penalty teaching is untraditional, and perhaps simply prudential, but it nonetheless appears to easily meet the requirements laid out in Lumen Gentium. So why are Catholics entitled to disobey?

Joseph Miller
Ann Arbor, Michigan
RJN responds:

Quoting the encyclical Evangelium Vitae, the Catechism states that “the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity ‘are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.’” I agree. It is in no way a question of “disobeying” the Magisterium if, for instance, one has a different estimate than the Pope with respect to how rare such cases are, or if one notes that an action may be morally permissible but not absolutely necessary. For a more thorough discussion of the Church’s teaching on capital punishment, see Avery Cardinal Dulles’ “Catholicism & Capital Punishment” (FT, April 2001).

It’s well worth noting that RJN’s observation that, in this case, disagreement is not disobedience, is precisely the issue that came up with regard to the Iraq war: just war theory requires a head of state to make a prudential judgment concerning which the head is presumed to be the competent judge; the same is true of capital punishment. Good men may disagree, without one being considered to be disobedient.

Rather than incude Cardinal Dulles’ entire article, I’ve included a link to it in FT’s excellent archives:

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0104/articles/dulles.html

Well, I’m already editing this post to include another link, to Antonin Scalia’s lengthy statement on the death penalty which also appeared in FT:

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0205/articles/scalia.html

'Tis the season to be jolly! Merry Christmas, all!

I’m not Catholic, but as a Christian I can not fathom how God would condone killing people, no matter how viscious their crime. Even the Saddam Husseins and Adolph Hitlers of the world deserve compassion and to know of God’s love (and forgiveness). When you’re violent and murderous toward them, you’re becoming just like them. Revenge heals nothing - it only causes more pain.

that’s as may be–compassion starts with understanding.

you may want to re-read exodus, it talks a lot about what crimes people should be put to death for, this was supposedly coming directly from god. aside from that without capital punishment jesus would have probably just died of old age after the romans shut down his little cult.

There’s lots in the Bible we don’t follow in this day and age. And killing people should be one of those things. The Bible has been used for centuries as an excuse to commit murder, and that’s unnacceptable as far as I’m concerned, though if it will change any time soon, I don’t know. I remain optimistic in humankind.

Just a (possibly dumb) question which my Catholic cousins could probably clear up just as quickly. If the Pope intends certain statements to be taken as though uttered ex cathedra, why wouldn’t he just utter them ex cathedra, this leaving no room for serious misinterpretation of nudges and winks? Conversely, if not spoken thus, why to be taken as though spoken thus? Are these remarks in some sense second amongst equals?

How about giving controversy a rest for Christmas?

Most likely because even he does not consider that they are infallible statements of faith, which is the case with ex cathedra proclamations. Ex cathedra proclamations happen very rarely and deal with required beliefs (some examples are the perpetual virginity of Mary and the assumption of Mary into heaven)…that doesn’t mean that the pope can’t or doesn’t speak with authority on other subjects of interest to the church.

Redwolf

If he made an ex cathedra statement immoralizing execution, it might contradict historic teaching, and the message is supposed to remain the same.

How about giving controversy a rest for Christmas?

Are you trying to start something, wiseguy??? :laughing:

  1. For some of us controversy is enlightening;
  2. During most of the year my time for controversy is limited by my need to work for a living; now that I’m off work for a bit I can devote more time to controversy, so I’d be a fool not to take advantage of the opportunity–who knows what I might learn!

Merry Christmas! :slight_smile:

BTW, one of the reasons I started this thread was because the topic seems to come up regularly, and usually engenders a fair amount of confusion re just what is the position of the Catholic Church. A lot of persons of good will seem to be under the impression that if the Pope rolls out of the sack on any given day and is in the mood, well, he can select some topic at random and start speaking ex cathedra. Not so, but to understand that you have to go through the conciliar definitions of infallibility and a lot of history for which most people have neither the time nor the energy. To keep it brief, it is well established that the Pope normally speaks as a “private theologian” ( = he’s offering his own opinion, well or ill informed as it may be, depending on circumstances). It is only when the Church in an ecumenical council or the Pope speak with the intention of defining some matter of belief or morality that is key to salvation that they are to be considered “infallible”: guided by the Holy Spirit.

A new factor seems to have been added in the current pontificate. JP2 is, and has been for most of his life, intensely political in his approach to ecclesial, theological and philosophical matters. He is not averse to using his office as a sort of bully pulpit for some very personal views in a political style. His various statements on capital punishment–none of which rise to the level of authoritative statements–reflect his willingness, even eagerness, to inject his personal views into topical debates. His numerous autobiographical writings, another novelty, reinforce the impression that he is not averse to establishing a degree of personal loyalty as opposed to loyalty to an office and institution established by Jesus.

Within the Church there is considerable uneasiness as to whether this is a wise or prudent course of action, given the very real possibility that this will lead to confusion among both the faithful as well as other interested persons as to the actual status of Catholic teaching on these topics. By drawing the Church, at its highest and most universal levels, into what are essentially political controversies which Church teaching holds should ordinarily be decided by the competent civic authorities, this course of action can also give an impression that the Church is motivated by personal and political animus rather than by properly religious concerns. At any rate, if this Pope wishes to become involved in this manner, it is understandable that he may personally welcome a certain amount of confusion: by using the papacy as a bully pulpit (and giving the impression that he is presenting Church teaching rather than private opinion) he may be able to affect actual practice without actually attempting the impossible: changing established Church teaching. By doing so he may offend some few persons concerned for clarity and probity, but he may (and I’m imputing motives here) gain new friends for the Church among fashionable elite intellectuals, who are more commonly disposed to accuse the Church of hypocrisy.

Re the issue of the actual practice of capital punishment in a given nation or subdivision thereof, it seems to me that if injustice in its application is a concern (innocent people are being executed, the penalty is being applied callously to offenders who have committed crimes that are simply incommensurate with the penalty imposed, etc.) then this is a proper matter for involvement on the part of local Church authorities, bishops and so forth. I personally prefer the Pope to maintain a more hands off personal approach than he has, and to maintain the clarity of Catholic teaching at all costs.

I happen to be ambivalent about capital punishment at the moment: still working through the issue. There are strong arguments on both sides of the issue.

I believe we should have the right to dictate what behavior is allowed and what is not allowed, and what is the consequence of engaging in disallowed behavior. Much of our law is based on the idea of recompense (of repaying the debt). But if someone takes a life, how does that life get repaid? That’s where capital punishment come in.

But the field isn’t level. So I don’t like capital punishment laws the way they’re currently written. Not every enjoys the same protections or due process under the law. Check any prison, and I’m willing to bet that the majority of death row inmates are poor and cannor afford to hire a lawyer who can actually ensure they receive a fair hearing.

So it’s a complicated, gray issue.

-Tom

Thanks, Redwolf and Walden. You summarized very succinctly what I seem incapable of doing in less than half a forum page. :smiley:

Fiddler, I agree. On the other hand, take a look at the quality of the evidence in various cases, as well. True, all guilty verdicts are certified as “beyond a reasonable doubt,” but the quality of the evidence in the recent sniper cases is quite different than the evidence in some highly publicized mistaken verdicts. This is where new investigative techniques (esp. DNA testing) are making major contributions. In addition, newly devised procedures governing the imposition of the death penalty (I mean at the trial and sentencing stages) are also having a salutary effect, in my opinion.

My thanks too. But thanks Elendil for your contribution. Many of my Catholic friends and relatives, almost all of them well-educated, one in fact the headmistress of a Catholic girls’ school, find many of the Pope’s pronouncements disconcerting and are quite open with me about it. They find the pronouncements of some of our more strident Archbishops and Cardinals even more disconcerting and are quite blunt about it. (I imagine the schoolgirls get a more tactful message than some of the rather frustrated remarks I hear regularly over dinner.)

Many self-professed Catholics, at all levels, are simply disconcerted by Catholicism, which they would prefer to be something entirely different than what it always has been. For these people the proclamation of established Catholic teaching may be strident and divisive. Others are disconcerted and/or scandalized for quite other reasons. Some who claim to be completely orthodox may be less so than they imagine, and some who dissent do so based on misunderstandings or personal pique. The Church today is often a confusing place to be.

This morning I came across an even more recent exchange of letters in First Things that illustrates the care that needs to be taken in attempting to determine precisely what authoritative Church teaching may be when dealing with topical discussions. This is not at all to suggest that Church teaching is up for grabs–to the contrary, I believe that in its essentials it is readily ascertainable. Three persons have written to comment on an article by Avery Cardinal Dulles. Dulles replies to their comments, one of which brings up Church teaching on just war, capital punishment, and the role of the new Catechism of the Catholic Church. Here goes (oh, I’ve added some helpful bold type and underlining):

Questions of Reform

In “True and False Reform.” (August/September), Avery Cardinal Dulles displays his usual clarity and forthrightness.

I do, however, differ from him in a nuanced but important way regarding the pastoral theology of Vatican II. I believe that the strength of his exposition on orthodoxy (with which I entirely agree) relies on the conceptual theologizing deriving from Trent, Vatican I, and the new Thomism. In effect, this style of reflection portrays Vatican II as a doctrinal council (especially regarding the ecclesial role of the bishops). As Cardinal Dulles remarks, “The Council exalted the episcopacy to an unprecedented peak of power and responsibility.”

My research on Vatican II as a pastoral council leads me to believe that Vatican II was primarily concerned with meanings and values, not doctrinal truths which had already been established by the Tradition of the Church. Hence, Vatican II’s style of reflection is a study in ecclesial subjectivity: i.e., on the corporate meanings and values residing in the ecclesial community. This descriptive, not defining, style of reflection is intent on serving a world in crisis on the model of the Good Samaritan. For this awesome millennial undertaking the Council projected a renewed Christocentric humanism or anthropology.

I have used the term “phenomenology” to elucidate the above “attitude shift” from objectivism to subjectivism, a shift that reflected that philosophy’s mid-century popularity in Europe.

John F. Kobler, C.P.
Immaculate Conception Monastery
Chicago, Illinois

I enjoyed reading Avery Cardinal Dulles’ “True and False Reform.” I would like him to clarify one statement he makes, and consider a question, both regarding the Lutheran Reformation.

First: In his essay Cardinal Dulles states, “Luther and his colleagues also took up the theme of reform, but in the name of correcting abuses they attacked essentials of the Catholic faith and became separated from the Church.” I would like to ask what “essentials of the Catholic faith” the Lutheran Reformers attacked, particularly since the presenters of the Augsburg Confession in 1530 took great pains to claim that their teachings were not contrary to catholic faith:

We have related only matters which we have considered it necessary to adduce and mention in order that it may be made very clear that we have introduced nothing, either in doctrine or in ceremonies, that is contrary to Holy Scripture or the universal Christian Church.

Further, Cardinal Dulles’ statement suggests that the Lutheran Reformers themselves created the break with Rome. Yet repeatedly in the Augsburg Confession the Reformers state that their goal is the unity of the Church:

Thus the matters at issue between us . . . may be discussed amicably and charitably, our differences may be reconciled, and we may be united in one, true religion, even as we are all under one Christ. . . . We on our part shall not omit doing anything, in so far as God and conscience allow, that may serve the cause of Christian unity.

At Augsburg the Lutheran Reformers sought to present a Catholic statement of faith, based on Scripture and tradition; their chief aim was the unity of the Church. That they “became separated” was not a result of their actions, but that the “jury”—i.e., the papal representatives and allies, which included the emperor—had in effect decided the verdict in advance and rejected the Augsburg Confession once it was presented without the possibility of further discussion.

Second, Cardinal Dulles suggests eight “principles by which reform proposals in our day might be assessed.” Reading through them, could not the Lutheran Reformation, at least in its official document of the Augsburg Confession (not Luther’s actions per se), be considered a genuine reform movement within the Catholic Church? A strong case could be made that the proposals of the Lutheran Reformers, certainly at the Diet of Augsburg, met the tests of the eight principles Cardinal Dulles sets forth in his essay.

These are matters of historical debate. I am not suggesting in any way that Lutheranism today shares the same concern for unity of the Church and faithfulness to Catholic teaching that the Reformers at the Diet of Augsburg did, nor does it meet the test of the principles Cardinal Dulles suggests. How Lutheranism has betrayed its own Reformation heritage is another story, about which many more qualified than I have already written.

(The Rev.) Dan Biles
St. Paul Lutheran Church
Spring Grove, Pennsylvania

In “True and False Reform,” Avery Cardinal Dulles promotes one reform that is specifically educational: the dissemination of the current Catechism of the Catholic Church to the laity. But the current Catechism tacitly excludes the traditional understanding of retributive justice as the primary purpose of the death penalty (2266, 2267) and of just war (2307, 2330).

The purpose of punishment, according to the Catechism, is to defend society or to provide restitution (“to redress the disorder caused by the offense”), not to exact deserved retribution. As to just war, the Catechism omits the traditional Augustinian-Thomistic justification for war—i.e., the punishment of evildoers who deserve to be punished for their wrongdoing—in favor of the justification of national self-defense, which need not coincide with retribution.

The current Catechism’s distortion-by-exclusion of the traditional understanding of retributive justice will thrust the Catholic Church directly onto the pathway toward moral irrelevance because if retributive justice has somehow become outdated, then—who knows?—we might be able to save ourselves without the graceful help of the Redeemer.

So why does Cardinal Dulles insist upon disseminating a Catechism that distorts the traditional Catholic understanding of retributive justice?

T. Dan Tolleson
Houston, Texas
Avery Cardinal Dulles responds:

The writers of the three letters here printed take my article as an occasion to make some points that are of special concern to themselves. In the first letter Father Kobler repeats his thesis that Vatican II was a phenomenological council. While there is much to be said for that view, the Council cannot be said to have restricted itself to phenomenology. In some cases it exercised clear doctrinal authority. The language of Lumen Gentium 20 and 21 (the twice-repeated “This sacred synod teaches . . .”) leaves no room for doubt that in these texts the Council was issuing doctrinal statements about the episcopate.

Pastor Biles raises the familiar question whether the Augsburg Confession could be recognized as orthodox by the Catholic Church. During the preparations for the 450th anniversary celebrations of the Confession in 1980, several distinguished theologians contended that such recognition would be possible, but in the end the Holy See stopped short of full recognition. The Pope contented himself with affirming the finding of the German Catholic bishops that they could find in the Augsburg Confession “a full accord on fundamental and central truths.” In my judgment the Confession’s rejection of the sacrifice of the Mass, of religious vows, and of the power of the bishops to impose laws binding in conscience is very difficult, if not impossible, to reconcile with Catholic teaching.

Mr. Tolleson expresses a distaste for the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I had mentioned only in passing. Unlike him, I regard it as a > magnificent, though not flawless> , synthesis of Catholic doctrine. It does not put much emphasis on retribution, but it does refer to eternal separation from God and “eternal fire” as punishments inflicted in hell. In speaking of criminal justice it states that the punishment should be “proportionate to the gravity of the offense” and that it may avail to expiate the guilt of the offender> .

True, the Catechism does not approve of punitive wars, but to the best of my knowledge their legitimacy is not a part of modern Catholic teaching, nor am I aware that it has ever been taught by the Magisterium.

For anyone interested, here’s the link to Dulles’ original article, below. In the article, Dulles tries to place the current travails of the Church within an historical context, and so offers a survey of the history of reform throughout Church history and offers some criteria for a true reform:

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0308/articles/dulles.html

Trying to see what’s in the Pope’s mind, it’s
interesting that this is part of an encyclical
dealing with abortion and euthanasia.
The Pope, I wager, feels a tension between
the teaching on the sanctity of innocent
human life, and capital punishment when it
isn’t done by way of protecting the state.
Of course murderers aren’t innocent,
but the sanctity of life ideal is that human
life is worthy
of protection, born, unborn, old, disabled,
sick, under a wide array of circumstances;
there is a powerful presumption
in favor of life, and perhaps what the Pope
feels is that killing people on grounds
of justice doesn’t fit well with this
doctrine. We may take people’s lives in self protection,
but not from justice or fairness. That is the
view that Catholics must take seriously,
if I understand him, though they aren’t
required to agree. The Pope, on this reading,
is a somewhat muted versiion of Cranberry.

Scalia’s essay above is wonderful, he is
I think one of the best philosophers
I know. He says that justices who
oppose the DP should resign, not try to
circumvent the law. And he maintains, not implausibly,
that DP is justified on grounds of justice.
But I think he’s made things too easy for himself,
because there is a difference between
particular acts and a policy (that is, a law).
To shift examples, I don’t think every particular
act of euthanasia is wrong but the consequences
of a law permitting it scare me, as they do
the AMA. Acts are one thing; policies another.
Personally I see no injustice in executing
Timothy McVeigh, but frightening injustice
in every death penalty statute we are ever
likely to devise. Best

Cant have your cake and eat it too, you know

Amen to that. You think things can get confusing in Rome, hop on over to Canterbury some time! There’s a good reason a lot of us Anglo-Catholic types are swimming the Tiber…for myself, I grumbled once too often "you know, this wouldn’t happen if we had a pope!’

Redwolf

A british friend of mine is converting from Anglican
to Catholic. I think the Church is in good health–
a wonderful institution, IMO. If God created it,
good for him; if we did, good for us.