I put Grace Notes in without thought and sometimes Rolls these come naturaly to my fingers I don’t even try. Crans (and somtimes Rolls) I have to think about it. What about you guys do you think about, does it just happen, or it is a combonation like what I do.
unfortunately I still have to think about much of them. Cuts and taps don’t require as much thought and I do tend to just do them more, but forget that with rolls. I’m just not adept enough with them yet. And I haven’t even attempted crans yet…at least not seriously. I guess I need to practice more 
Either that or you can tell me your secret so I won’t have to practice 
The same for me - cuts and taps are easy, so I use them a fair amount.
I learn most of my tunes now by a combination of listening and sheet music (listen, consult sheet, listen, lather, rinse, repeat . . .), and in most cases I don’t add a roll unless the CD or sheet indicates it. And about the only roll I do halfway competently yet is a G roll - it’s the only one I’d even dream of throwing in on my own. Oddly, I sometimes find a cran easier than a roll, and I’ve started working them in some tunes where I think they fit - “The Shores of Amerikay”, frex, works well with crans in the upper-octave part, or the start of the chorus of “Whiskey in the Jar”.
One technique I like quite a bit is accenting a note with a cut as a lead in - the Byrne A Dossan of Heather book/CD gives lots of examples (I like the overall style of ornamentation here, actually - restrained, but very tasty). Not hard to find - the first tune in the book, “Forgetting the Lesson” (a jig) uses it with good effect. Though most of the examples given in the book are dance tunes, it works particularly well for airs where more complex ornaments feel out of place.
Hmmm - hadn’t realized I’d internalized quite this much about ornamentation. Now if only my execution was that developed . . .
YEah, I do rolls, cuts and taps without thinking, but crans I really have to think about, especially considering I do the d,a,d,g,d,f#,a,d cran instead of the d,a,d,g,d,f#…those extra notes add all the difference. Triple tonguing I’m having to think about as well, but not as much as crans…
I’ll throw in a tap every now and again without thinking, but that’s about it. Of course, I’ve only been playing for about 6 months. Taps, cuts, and slurs are about the only variations that I’ve messed around with. I’m still trying to concentrate on mastering the basics and learning a decent number of tunes.
But that kind of brings about a question for you more experienced players.
As your playing progresses, do you find that you start picking up on ornamentation naturally, or is it something you have to take a lot of time to practice? If it’s more a matter of practice, when would you suggest a newbie start trying to introduce it into his playing? Thanks!
Although I’m not all that seasoned I would say asap, listen to all the greats, notice where they place them, and it really comes naturally…
I have to say this a beginner should not learn tounging because later they will have to stop doing it after it becomes a habit they should learn cuts and taps right away but the harder stuff later. I say that what really helped my ornamentation skills was playing Bagpipes (GHBs) because you can’t use tounging on Pipes it is impossible so I had to train my fingers to use Grace Notes and “Embellishments” (GHB player’s word for ornaments) so it transfered over to my Whistle and Flute playing.
I don’t agree regarding tonguing. Use it more sparingly, no argument, but I think it’s a skill that needs to be learned early and well.
Though beginners often use it far too freely, tonguing has its place in regular play - if nothing else, it’s often the best way to make a clean transition from the first to second octave, or to resume after breathing. There are many tunes - not Irish trad, but good whistle tunes - that really need the stacatto tonguing, and some Irish tunes where it works as well.
There are ornaments that require it, too - “tongued triplet”, anyone?
Some places demand rolls. I’d plan them in advance.
Otherwise I just try to play with good rhythm and drive. If an ornament happens, it happens. I keep ornamentation to a minimum quite deliberately. In some moods, I’ll have the rhythm happening easily and my fingers will just naturally start producing a few ornaments.
One thing I’ve read is that a good player would never play a tune with the same ornamentation twice; that is, on a repeat, there would be subtle changes.
Problem is, I work so darn hard to get it sounding good, I hate to give up any of it the second time around. Lots of times I have to let go of stuff I’ve planned and practiced in terms of ornamentation because the tempo takes off just a little faster than when I practice alone.
One day I’ll catch up.
Jennie[/list]
I almost always let my ornamentation come naturally. I have been trying to put in short rolls, but since they don’t come naturally, I’m having a difficult time trying to put more of them in. I try to put in new variations each time I play a tune. I do okay with it in a group (a.k.a. Celtic Band), but I don’t do much of it when I play solo. I think I do it because I know that if I screw up it won’t be too obvious in the group, but if I’m solo, everyone will know.
Most come fairly naturally which comes from listening to a lot of music. When I long roll, I tend to favor the tongued long roll. Sometimes I have to consciously not tongue on the long roll for a better variety! Another thing, I rarely (if ever) cran on a high whistle.
P3