There’s a blackwood Olwell Pratten with a tuning slide and flute roll on EBay. Starting bid is $2000, with a buy it now price of $2600. I think the current price from Patrick would be about $1800, with a wait of about a year. What’s a fair markup for no waiting?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161666945509?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
It looks like a nice instrument as you would expect from an Olwell, featuring the fully lined headjoint. Still, there’s a $200 dollar markup for first bids, and an $800 markup with the buy it now, it may even potentially be a little more considering inflation, as the owner bought the flute in August 2010. It’s hard to say what is a fair markup on such an instrument, however I think I read an old post on this forum that claimed Olwell himself wasn’t keen on people making a profit with his instruments.
And the 2012 Wilkes keyless went for $1422. Hard to tell what the values for “no waiting” are in the open market.
Best wishes.
Steve
They’re worth whatever impatient people with swollen wallets decide..
/Captain Obvious
Yup. And how much you want to bet the person who bought it can barely play?
I suppose it’s the age old " Supply and Demand " conundrum. The only way to stop this flagrant profiteering would be for the artisan/makers to increase production levels by possibly adopting mass production techniques - and thereby destroying the very essence of what attracts people to their instruments in the first place. No easy answer I suppose, although I would be interested to know if this forum has a policy concerning this matter and if so, what it might be ?
I can barely play lots of instruments, and I recently sold my Olwell (Pratten), using this forum, I think. My thoughts on E-bay are that there are seller’s fees and if used, Paypal fees. I contemplated putting my Olwell on E-bay, but I figured that I was going to need to sell it for about $2000 in order to end up with the $1750 that I wanted for it. I decided in the end just to sell it here, as I figured that $1750 was a fair price. I think that I sold it in about a week to someone that I had previously sold instruments. My memory is that Olwells (unkeyed) were selling at their highest on E-bay for about $2400, but more recently for less. Put that in your pipe(s) and …
" Moments Of Wonder ?? " - To be the owner of a wonderful flute or to to be a wonderful flute player ?
No conundrum here!
Paid 1800 euros = $1913 for an Olwell Pratten with flute roll, from Cork, that was a 6 months old in as new condition a few years ago. An ok price then I thought.
Fact of life, high end instruments of all types appreciate when they are not so easy to get and people want them. I was thinking of selling my 20+ year old keyless blackwood Olwell Pratten a short while back, thinking that $1950 - $2000 might be a good selling price, given that it is in excellent+ condition, sounds really good, never had a hint of a crack, is well broken-in and of time proven stablity. I’ve backed off from selling it, but I think it’s normal for people to sell their used instruments for as much they can get for them and they shouldn’t be criticized for what they do with their own possessions. If that is wrong, then there should be laws requiring people to pay resale royalites to the makers. Also nothing wrong with paying a really high price if you’re fortunate enough to afford to do so. Last year I started keeping my own records of what certain makes of pre-owned flutes and whistles, (primarily Olwell flutes, Copeland and Sindt whistles) have been selling for on ebay and on this website. All of those prices have gotten higher than I’m currently willing to pay, but then new instruments by those makers either can’t be acquired immediately or are virtually impossible to find. So… I don’t blame people for getting as much they can for instruments they need to sell for whatever reasons. I’m seriously considering selling my Copeland sterling silver high-D whistle and haven’t yet determined how much I should let it go for, but I’ll try to get what I can for it --or at least test the waters. And isn’t that sort of what the makers do when they put one of their own up on ebay? On the positive side, a decent part of the money I make from selling a high end instrument will go towards buying other instruments from respected makers.
Having looked at this forum’s rules regarding used instrument exchange, it would not persuade me to use it with any confidence. Although many members may have probably used it without any problem,( Maybe they know one and other or have built up trust on this forum over time) the massive disclaimer in paragraph/rule one is enough to dissuade me, and that’s neatly followed up in rule four saying you are prohibited from making comment on an instrument or it’s price on the forum. Safer to use this forum as a link to ebay for example where there are at least some guarantees. Maybe most forums of this type operate in a similar fashion, and as I’m relatively new to this, I probably have some catching up to do. As for individuals turning up out of the blue, and immediately selling newly acquired instruments by high profile makers with long waiting lists at high profit margins I couldn’t possibly comment could I ?
On the face of it? So long as it’s confined to the right forum and the relevant thread, I don’t see why not. Discussing ethics is one thing, but the Board’s injunction against price policing is another matter and presents little wiggle room, so calling it like you see it becomes something of an exercise in focus. For more detail about price policing, refer to #8 in the C&F Consolidated Concordat on Policy (CCCP). This is at the top of each forum page and it is available to us all for guidance. In fact, if you haven’t yet done so I encourage you to read it in full. With under 20 main points it’s not a burdensome read, entries are as clear and as brief as informality allows us to make them, the guidelines are reasonable, and it should help give you a good sense of this place. Whenever there’s a question, I consult the CCCP myself. It’s proved very helpful.
And, as ever, if you prefer you can in the case of a question always PM a Mod directly.
‘As for individuals turning up out of the blue, and immediately selling newly acquired instruments by high profile makers with long waiting lists at high profit margins I couldn’t possibly comment could I ?’ The makers, some of them, if they think you ordered the flute so that you could sell it quickly at a profit, will never do business with you again.
Trying for honest reasons to sell an instrument at the upper end of its value spectrum is one thing, but buying and immediately flipping instruments, new or used, on a forum purely to turn a quick profit would be an ethics violation on any kinds of instrument forums I’m familiar with.
Well, on the other hand if a profiteer can get new high end instruments from a maker, then so can anyone else. Otherwise the profiteer would have endure the waiting lists, hope the maker would retire shortly afterwards and/or then hold on to the instruments until they appreciated enough to make it worthwhile, and by then it probably wouldn’t be all that worthwhile. Never mind. I need to go to bed.
Regarding Olwell prices, here’s a couple of possible Olwell flutes that sold for very reasonable prices on e-bay last month
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Patrick-Olwell-Low-D-Keyless-5-piece-Boxwood-Flute-w-Cavallaro-Case-/121561250144?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d9d7960
US $659.00
Approximately £449.72
[ 3 bids ]
and
US $470.00
Approximately £320.74
[ 5 bids ]