I have a question on oiling that I didn’t see addressed in any of the threads on oiling (or maybe I just didn’t search long enough).
I’m using Bore Doctor oil on my CB mopane flute. It says to let it dry overnight, and I’ve been doing that. I also normally keep my flute in a Rubbermaid container with a damp sponge since I live in Arizona, and I’ve been keeping it in the Rubbermaid while the oil soaks in and dries as well. Should I continue doing this, or should I keep it outside the humidified container while the oil dries?
I’ve wondered this, too. I always keep mine upright so that, in case there’s enough oil to flow, it doesn’t pool on one side of the bore. But the indoor RH is almost never below 40% here.
I let mine dry upright, but the lowest my indoor humidity ever goes is 45-50% in the summer. It’s 55% in the Flute Habitat. So, there really isn’t much difference. To achieve a higher humidity around the drying flute bits, all I’d have to do is stand a plastic bag loosely over them with a damp paper towel in there.
Don’t see a need to do that, myself, but in Arizona . . . if your indoor humidity is really drastically different, maybe you should. I don’t know that it would hurt.
Linseed oil, which I use, dries by polymerizing, not by water evaporating out of it, so the humidity maybe doesn’t have an effect on the drying process. I’m guessing here, but I’ll bet you can write to the Bore Doctor himself and ask–he’s apparently a real person. Some kind of clarinet-playing chemist or the other.
We still have the AC on probably through the end of the week, and the indoor humidity is around 35-40%. We will soon be turning off the AC and opening up the house, and then the humidity will drop to the 15-20% range.
I just sent an email to “The Doctor” about the Bore Doctor oil and whether humidity has any affect on how well it dries. I’ll let you know what he says.
I usually stand mine up also. I don’t see why it would need humidity while the oil is soaking in that would just give the Flute more to soak in a take longer.
Can you please post what you hear from the “The Doctor.” I’m in AZ also (Tucson) and use his bore oil on my blackwood Copley. I’ve been storing my flute in a cigar humidor. After oiling, I return it to the humidor rather than leaving it out.
Bore Doctor soaks into the wood at almost any relative humidity and depends
a lot on the dryness of the wood. Plant derived oils hold shells of water
(actually hydrophilic and hydrogen bonding of the water molecules to the
fatty acid side chains of the oil) - the outermost are more easily gained or
lost while the innermost are tightly bound to the oil molecules. In this
way plant oils maintain a relatively constant moisture level in the wood.
Only when severe dehydration or loss of the oil itself is the wood at a loss
for moisture. The oil buffers the uptake and loss of water. It would be
better to keep your flute in a sealed plastic container with a saturated
salt (there are exotic salts with special properties, but a saturated
solution of common table salt in a sealed container such as an old 35 mm
film container with a membrane with holes in it will work fine to keep
relative humidity at about 60% RH) solution rather than a wet sponge. The
salt solution will keep the relative humidity at about 60-70% RH rather than
90-95% with a wet sponge. The ideal relative humidity is between 45% and
65% RH for woodwind instruments. Much higher or lower increases the
potential for cracking. Oil in the wood will buffer loss or uptake of water
from the environment and is the best defense against structural swelling or
shrinkage of the wood.
Oh, interesting! The water is bound to plant oils! So, when you oil, you’re not just coating it, but hydrating it, as well.
But, it would not be bound to petroleum-based oils. Thus being a good reason why mineral oil isn’t so hot for your instrument.
Interesting about the saturated salt solution. Hmmm, I will have to try that. Just got some new plastic jars at Walmart, about half the height of a film canister and the same diameter, with an interior plastic lid with small holes in it. They were in the section with the toothbrush and soap holders, so they must be intended for shaking cosmetic powder or something. I will try the salt thing with one of those and see how it works.
I use flax-seed oil and have been using it for the past few years, before that i used bore oil which did an alright job also, when i oil my flutes i let them sit overnight laying flat with the toneholes turned up, the next morning i find that the oil has flowed down the bore and is sitting along the bore of the flute directly under and opposite the toneholes, and this is where i want most of the oil, as this is the area where the water flowes from the condensation when im playing the flute, the other area of the bore gets enough oil before it flows down.
I always use almond oil myself adn I think it works great I have tried petroleum stuff horrible but that was on my Pipes which can take a lot more abuse.
dr. bore’s response is enlightening and fascinating, but i am not sure it addresses the real question here.
i think the issue is whether oil will seep in as quickly when the flute is undergoing a rapid drop in rh as it would if the rh remained constant.
if the flute is left outside of its container in a relatively lower rh, then moisture will be pressured out of the wood due to the drop in rh. oil might slow the process down but moisture will want to leave the wood. if at the same time oil has been applied, it is then wanting to be soaked into the wood at the same time as moisture wanting to leave.
but if the flute is left in the container, then moisture is wanting to stay put and cannot move so long as the rh remains constant, meanwhile the oil soaks in. i bet the oil will soak in quicker under this condition. that’s just my guess, i am purely speculating here.
Resurrecting this old thread as I’m currently making a new humidification device for my flute case. I’ve used the wet sponge in a film canister before, but like the sound of the salt-mixture’s regulation of rh. However, I’m having trouble envisioning the set-up of what the Dr explains above:
‘a saturated solution of common table salt in a sealed container such as an old 35 mm film container with a membrane with holes in it will work fine to keep relative humidity at about 60% RH’
sounds like your membrane full of damp salt would be sealed off from humidifying by the sealed canister. What am I missing here?
Well, that would depend on what your membrane is made of. If you used Saran wrap, then you’re right, it would be sealed off. If, on the other hand, you used something like what teabags are made of for your membrane, then it should work fine, as the moisture could move back and forth through the material. Another idea might be a bunch of holes in the top of the film canister with a piece of card stock underneath, or maybe a membrane out of a kazoo? Seems like they are made from thin paper, but I may be remembering wrong from when I was a kid.
Ok, that makes sense Dow, thanks! An empty teabag sounds like a good idea and it also sounds like you don’t wet the salt enough to make a soupy paste that would actually leak out of a perforated container.
You know, this reminds me of something that I used in my guitar cases for years. It’s called a Herco Guardfather, and is a little plastic tub with some clay in it. You saturate the clay in water, shake out the excess and put the tub in your case. It works on the same principle. Seems like they run around three or four dollars a piece. similar in size to a film canister, but maybe a little shorter and a little bigger around.
AHA! Here’s a link Herco Guardfather. Your local guitar shop should have them. Might be a good solution, and much less likely to spill than salt.
For the memberane: How about a piece of coffee filter paper. I have also seen empty tea bags (for self filling) sold in fine kitchen supply stores for a couple of bucks a box. They are a little bigger than regular tea bags and might be easier to work with.
A saturated solution is one where the liquid can hold no more salt. So in this case, you dissolve as much table salt in water as you can until no more will dissolve (and any more just settles to the bottom of the liquid). You then decant the liquid into your 35mm film canister.
So yes, you have a canister full of liquid (brine, salt water), not a canister full of damp salt.
If you put a canister of salt in your instrument case, you’ll suck up all the moisture in it!
My understanding of the membrane is that it really is a typical lid of the 35 mm film container with some small holes drilled in it, not a separate piece of material like tea-bag or coffee filter. Am I wrong?
That’s the impression I get too, Tom. But clearly this isn’t any good for a flute case you intend to carry around; the solution would pour out the holes. Think it’s meant only for static storage indoors, but only yer man the Bore Doctor can answer that definitively I reckon.
Thanks everyone for the clarification - I’ve promptly removed my teabag of damp salt, lol and gone back to a damp peice of paper towel. I’m going to get some of the green florist’s foam (as used in humidors) as it’s pretty good at dispensing moisture at an even rate. No more of this ‘salty-water’ mess - good idea, but not very practical for a mobile instrument and its case.
and gone back to a damp peice of paper towel. I’m going to get some of the green florist’s foam (as used in humidors) as it’s pretty good at dispensing moisture at an even rate. No more of this ‘salty-water’ mess - good idea, but not very practical for a mobile instrument and its case.