I love this song and have been working on it for a couple of weeks. I realized, however, that I was going through nearly the entire song without tonguing, so I tried playing it with a lot of tonguing and found it gave the song the real “bounce” I feel when I play it. I got thinking that for the real up-beat feel of jigs/reels, most of them ought to be played with more tonguing. Do all you wise, experienced players tongue a lot on jigs/reels?
Susan
[ This Message was edited by: susnfx on 2002-05-11 11:45 ]
I’m not an experienced player, but Brother Steve is and gives good clear advice on tonguing, especially with reference to Jigs, at his recently updated site:
I’ve always played “Off to California” as a hornpipe. The dotted-eighth notes of the best hornpipes (I do play some hornpipes with undotted eighth notes as well) just beg for tonguing, especially at a slow-to-midtempo. So much so that there’s a danger of overdoing it.
Jigs can use a lot of tonguing as well. I like to “attack” the first and fourth notes of the measure, and tonguing does this very well in many cases, though in other cases I’ll do it simply with a change in air pressure. I find that with reels, it depends on circumstances – well, it does with jigs and hornpipes also, but even more so with reels. Tempo (I generally play reels comparatively slowly, which brings out the beauty of the melody), repeated notes, changes in octave, and a number of other factors can all dictate whether a note should be tongued or not. I used to tongue all repeated notes, but I’ve decided that for me personally it’s not always necessarily. And that’s the key -“for me personally.” One of the first things I tell my whistle students is that there is no right way to do a lot of these things. There are definitely wrong ways, very wrong ways, to do certain things with the whistle, but no one right way. When it comes to tonguing, and where to tongue, and how much to tongue, there are many right answers, and it depends on the player personally. Of course, if you’re playing with other people who feel that a more legato style of playing is more appropriate for you to “fit in”, it doesn’t hurt to be prepared for that circumstance, either. But by and large, tonguing is an option with which you can develop your own style, your own self-expression. (I haven’t read Brother Steve in a while, but he usually gives sage advice. Now that I’ve put in my two cents worth, I’ll go back and read it again!)
Tom Bingham tomandceil@bigsplat.net
Most whistle players would agree that tonguing is vital, I think.
I think it makes good sense to learn to play without tonguing, or at least to experiment with this technique, because that can help you can get rid of the reflex that many people have to tongue every note.
Then you can put them back in - as Susan is doing - to make the tunes bounce, as she says.
As for where to put them back in - the field is wide open so that you can develop your own style. The whole art and the joy of the thing is discovering how and where you can use tonguing to phrase tunes the way you like.
I’d recommend lots of listening to good players - very careful listening at times - allowing the sound and phrasing to percolate into your unconscious. You’ll soon start doing neat things naturally, without even realizing it. Sounds as though Martin is doing that.
Psst! Martin… be wary of recommending “that” site. Susan apparently had to be treated for depression after her last visit…
You’re right - OTC is a hornpipe and that’s how I’m playing it - I wrote jigs/reels without thinking (it was very early here)- where is my head!?!?!
Susan
(Oh my heck (as we say in Utah), Stevie, how did you remember that? I’ve gone into total immersion therapy, though, and been through Bro. Steve’s site in full.)
[ This Message was edited by: susnfx on 2002-05-10 10:17 ]
Hi Susan:
Favorite tune/topic for me. I have played this at school assemblies and been eager to hear different pros play it. They really vary in “tonguing” insofar as how they begin it.
I have the Russell family record (among others) and they play the whole piece in a meandering fashion. They play a roll at the beginning that is sublte and slurred.Its like this dip in front and everything follows in its own good time. So the opening roll makes a difference.
The other huge variable is just how people play hornpipes in general. My initial tendency on them WAS the very regular dotted method, very rhythmic at a sensible pace. But some pros speed up hornpipes and almost compress the note pairs and others don’t keep the overall beats as regular but do long phrasing with subtle rhythmic speed variability.
Hornpipes are a somewhat recent import to Irish music and I wonder if they have not been as adopted into the music culture as much as reels (help me out, Peter or somebody). The scholarly suppositions that I have read are that jigs and slip jigs in particular are most native.I was told on this Forum that hornpipes aren’t played at sessions that much; maybe its because there is not an agreed-upon a way to play them?
Just listen around and you’ll find what works for you. But as a Californian, I love that one! We do an extended version and transform the rhythm into a plunky cowboy style with banjo, in addition to the regular hornpipe with whistle.
Best wishes.
[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-05-10 11:38 ]
We do an extended version and transform the rhythm into a plunky cowboy style with banjo, in addition to the regular hornpipe with whistle.
Best wishes.
Do you mean you play it through, then switch the rhythm around while playing the same tune, then back again?
I love that effect! It’s like watching the wheels spinning backwards on a stagecoach in a movie! You think you’re hearing it wrong, like your ears got put on sideways, and then it all falls into place again!
We do an extended version and transform the rhythm into a plunky cowboy style with banjo, in addition to the regular hornpipe with whistle.
Best wishes.
The tune appeared in Frank Converse’s banjo tutor sometime in the 1860s. The name given was Barley Reel. It’s noted in the “stroke” style used in minstrel shows and is pretty difficult. It’s in O’Neill’s book as Off to California. I’ve often wondered if O’Neill gave it the name Off to California because at one time he or one of cronies on the Chicago police force was off to California.
One of my tunebooks (I forget which one) claims that Off to California was written (presumably by an emigrant) at about the time of the potato famine as a celebration of the escape from the then-miserable Ireland to the opportunities of California. This was not substantiated by any references (then again, how much lore about tune origins is?), however, and it may have actually be renamed by O’Neill, or by whoever O’Neill got the tune from.
Martin and Steve:
Yes, we do an alternated version where the hornpipe comes in later. The first part is sort of like a Western movie score, rolling along with a straighter two style, using steel string guitar, whistle and banjo in different ways. The whole tone is set by the guitar intro which is (in chords) G Am G/B (first inversion) C G D G. Its plunky and fun. I play the melody both on whistle and with the banjo-guitar. On the latter, I used a pick even tho’ its nylon-strung, so I could get the mandolin-style repeated notes on longer notes (roll equivalent). The hornpipes comes in after a sustained final chord by guitar which drops out. Whistle comes in solo, kind of fast then guitar joins in on A section. Guitar actually is used percussively then with other Weekender hitting her hand near bridge (tambour ). She picks later which breaks tension created by “drum” and whistle.
Funny thing is, I arrived at this whole scheme before I knew about minstrel music or Irish banjo playing. i was playing through ONeills and saw the tune (cause it had California in the title and we do California historical folk music) and just reacted naturally that way. I had never heard the tune as I wasn’t yet REALLY INTO Irtrad.
I did all the arranging for my folk group and always just think in that mode.
I learned all that later. I had no idea Off to Cal was ever used by minstrels. I since learned from DrHorsehair.com all about minstrels, early banjos etc. Great site!
One of my crackpot theories is that musicians just do similar things given what they have to work with. This is definitely proof of it. Thanks for further responses.
One other thought to Susan: I didn;t realize until later the following: If you want to do hornpipes in a metric fashion with very regular beat, you will tongue a lot. If you let them “ebb and flow” more, they will be less tongued. And hornpipes seem to lend themselves to various approaches. Do listen to the Russell Family from Doolin County Clare CD. Its great! You can feel the sun shining and smell the sea breeze on that record, I swear!
[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-05-10 13:17 ]
I had no idea Off to Cal was ever used by minstrels. I since learned from DrHorsehair.com all about minstrels, early banjos etc. Great site!
Dr Horsehair (Bob Flesher) is an evangalist for minstrel music. He makes beautiful banjos too. I think Joe Ayers has recorded Off to CA (Barley Reel) on one of his casettes. I’d have to check that though. Ayers is an amazing banjo player in the stroke style.
Hans Nathan has written on the derivation of minstrel tunes from Irish originals. He gives examples that seem to me to be impossible to play.
OK, so who has a good MP3 of this tune…the two abc files in H. Norbecks are either messed up with extra notes or are not correctly noting triples…and (god forbid) maybe it would be better to learn this one by ear.
Thanks…now Im intriged and want to take this tune out for a drive.
On 2002-05-10 16:23, DazedinLA wrote:
OK, so who has a good MP3 of this tune
There are four or five versions at MP3.com. I won’t vouch for their goodness however. One was by a guy who plays spiritual-mystical-celtic-world-ambient creations. No joke. I am not making this up. He plays it on a low whistle to boot. Well, good luck.
I looked at Mandolin Cafe since there are some good players in their MP3 arichives. No luck but some good listening anyway.
I’ve played Off to CA a lot tonguing,
but I’ve come to prefer it and other
hornpipes without. Sounds like a
steap calliope–to me it’s more
interesting that way. Where
articulation is needed on tunes
increasingly I’m substitutung
taps or cuts, minimizing tonguing.
Again I find the sound more
interesting. My 2 cents…
On 2002-05-10 20:44, jim stone wrote:
I’ve played Off to CA a lot tonguing,
but I’ve come to prefer it and other
hornpipes without. Sounds like a
steap calliope–to me it’s more
interesting that way. Where
articulation is needed on tunes
increasingly I’m substitutung
taps or cuts, minimizing tonguing.
Again I find the sound more
interesting. My 2 cents…
That’s a great way of putting it Jim. When I said meandering, that was not quite right though the whistle on that Russell record definitely meanders around the main melodies, seemingly intentional not to hit beats precisely. To me, the calliope metaphor is a steady stream of air and implied sound broken up dynamically rather than the other way around (of notes coming out of silence). The resulting phrasing is peculiar: even though you hear short directional phrases, they are kind of inconclusive until you get to the end of the section. As I said before, I first played hornpipes metric and regular then evolved to the latter, perhaps similar to your way.It’s just more interesting and I get the feeling that its more changeable depending on how I feel at that moment, rather than a studied thing. Intentional imprecision?
You can hear a fairly regular version at the BBC Virtual Session without downloading anything (see neighboring thread). They don;t do the initial roll.The Russells do a sort of offbeat or early roll into the first bar.It’s hard for me to describe.
[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-05-11 02:35 ]
On 2002-05-10 16:23, DazedinLA wrote:
OK, so who has a good MP3 of this tune…the two abc files in H. Norbecks are either messed up with extra notes or are not correctly noting triples…and (god forbid) maybe it would be better to learn this one by ear.
Thanks…now Im intriged and want to take this tune out for a drive.
Kev
It’s up on the virtual session, actually… not -exactly- the setting I play, but close enough for Irish music.
The version I learned (and like lots better than the Virtual Session version) came from Mel Bay’s Irish Session Tune Book (collected and edited by Cari Fuchs). When I want to play along with the VS, I play this version over the top of the VS and it works very nicely. The Tune Book version showed me ways to play the first and second phrases differently to add variety.
Susan
You really need to get yourself L.E. McCullough’s 121 Favorite Irish sessions tunes with the 4 CD set. All the ABC in the world ain’t no substitute for hearing somebody actually play these things well. Break down and buy it dude!
I know, I know. I actually was gonna, but then someone told me there was this Overton Low D for sale on the Chiffboard and…Its definitely on my short list. BTW, Is this tune in McCullough’s 121?
Incidentally, this was/is a very nice, informative, Matrix-worthy thread. Its now been added to the site.
