Odd whistle keys

I’m sure this sort of thing has been asked before, but there are too many hits on a search for me to sort through all of them. Maybe somebody can point me in the right direction.

I would like to play whistle at my church occasionally. The music can be any key, but typically ranges from 2 flats to 5 sharps. Probably the most common keys are D, G, A, and E. I own high and low D whistles, but need some suggestions for whistles to cover the rest of the spectrum. Something not terribly loud and not terribly expensive. It would be nice to have a set or something similar to have a bit of consistency in playing characteristics, although I realize this may not be possible. The only thing I can seem to find with a Google search is Susato, but I’m really looking for something a little more quiet. If anybody has suggestions, even if those suggestions aren’t ideal, I would love to hear them.

Some things to consider: How big the church? How powerful the organ (if used)? How loud any other instruments? If you’ll be playing along with a choir, how many singers? Finally: how loud the congregational singing?

The Susato may not be quite so loud after all, depending…

You want to balance your sound with theirs; floating above the groan of the organ and the moan of the people, but not overpowering them all. I could see sense in a quieter whistle along with a small church, forty or fifty congregants and a chamber organ w/ cantor. A big church with a big pipe organ (and an organist with a penchant for pulling all those nice reed stops!), thirty or forty in the choir and seven hundred or a thousand people singing – you might find yourself out-puffed even with a loud Susato!

Also, if you are playing along with an organ, you’ll want something that will let you stand out – after all, any whistle you play is basically an organ pipe with six holes in it. (Or conversely, the organ is ten thousand whistles with nary a hole in any of em!) You don’t want to be huffing and puffing and no one can hear you at all because your instrument is mimicing the voicing of one of the ranks of pipes!

Smallish church, ~150 attendance. Modern music, meaning guitars, keys, drums, bass etc. Hillsong type stuff, mainly. Occasionally saxophone or violin. Everything is amplified via mics or otherwise, so the whistle volume is more for my practice at home than anything else. All the musicians use in-ear monitors with completely adjustable volume levels. The monitors are high-quality noise cancelling, and the audience is not really loud.

The whistle would be for fills/harmony type stuff when a more acoustic set is called for. I am more concerned with being able to play in the correct keys than volume. I will do loud whistles if necessary.

Erle Barlett (Syn whistles) does combo deals of one head with multiple bodies, and I believe that he does a set going from high Eb down to alto A (8 bodies). I have his high D/C set and a low D whistle and I love all of them. He’s also been a great guy to work with both times I contacted him.

If it was me, I’d get a full set of Generations. Untweaked.

Susato S-Series B and C are not Loud…compared to their D sister.


If you can get the no longer made S-Series Susato Bb and an M-Series Alto F and F#… those are on the quiet Spectrum.

The Susato Low C is a sweetie too.

I’ll second the Syn whistles…you can get 8 keys ( E, Eb, D, C, C#, B, Bb, and A ) for the one head…unbeatable price…less expensive than an equal Susato set…hardy aluminum…great design and great players…overall, great workhorses…I leave my Sindt whistles (Eb, D, C, Bb, A ) home now and use the Syns exclusively…you will not be disappointed and Erle was a gem to deal with!

I leave my Sindt whistles (Eb, D, C, Bb, A ) home now and use the Syns exclusively…you will not be disappointed and Erle was a gem to deal with!

You make it sound a bit like they’re interchangeable. But they are not are they? They are very, very different whistles. Their sound and playing characteristics are miles apart. You may prefer the Syns over the Sindts but they are hardly a cheaper alternative for when you’re reluctant to take your Sindts out.

great question. i use whistles on occasion for the same purpose. in order to play in church, i have acquired whistles in the keys of D, Db, C, B, Bb, A, Ab, G, F, E, Eb, Low D, and Low C. We are fortunate to have a variety of quality makers to choose from. good luck in your search! it can be quite fun.

As another Syn set owner, I would add my vote for them, the one that I would leave out of the set if you order from Earl Bartlett is the A body, it is playable, but you smile at it and you are in the second octave.

David

Curious, what do you consider and “odd” key?

Good question though. But really, while we can all tell you what our experience has been only you have the right answer because it is entirely dependent on your church, their music preferences, their music director and the flexibility of the other musicians.

My simple answer is that you will need a whistle in every key. A, B, Bb, C, D, Eb, E, F,and G, will surely come up. In some cases it will be best to have high and low versions of some keys like Eb, E, D and C. The vocal range of particular singers may push you to need the other in-between keys.

I played whistles (and many other instruments) in church for many years as a worship leader (I’ve since retired from all that)- playing mostly contemporary Christian stuff but also more traditional stuff on occasion. I played a wide variety of whistles and flutes depending on what was needed. I have a set of ~24 Burke whistles in most keys and materials that I used most weeks. I used a large set of Susato Kildares for key coverage before I moved to the Burkes. I found it helpful to stick to one type or make of whistle so that I didn’t have to stop and think about what a whistle in a particular key required when I picked it up. Burkes work exceptionally well in that regard I also make my own whistles and they would fill in the really odd keys when called for (like C# or F#). I also used Gens, Copelands, Thin Weasels, Sindts and others when I could. It really depends on the setting, how much volume is needed, which tone works best with the other instrumentation, how formal or informal the service was, etc.

My suggestion is to build your whistles case for key coverage by starting off with a full set of Generations as benhall.1 suggests. They do not need to be tweaked as has been said. That will give you much of what you need. Remember that each whistle plays easily in two keys. So a D whistles plays in D and G; a C whistle plays in C and F; an Eb plays in Eb and Ab; Bb in Bb and Eb and so on. Then add a B whistle (keys of B and E) when those keys are called for. Same for the A whistle, low G whistle, low F whistle and so on. Eventually you will have a whistle in each key you need.

Yes, I like the Syns too, but the single head solution wouldn’t have worked best for me. Maybe you could get a set from Erle with two heads.

I found it helpful to have a separate whistle in each key rather than one head. The reason being that it is not unusual to modulate up a full step in a praise song. Swapping heads at the right time doesn’t usually work. Picking up the whistle key in the new key is more doable. Something like “Days of Elijah” is one example for your consideration.

Also don’t be afraid to inquire about a change of key one step up or down in a piece. Guitars have capos. electronic keys have “transpose/pitch shift” settings, drummers don’t care. Singers can usually go up or down one step. Brass players might protest.

Have fun. Make a joyful noise. Check out the Praise Whistlers too. http://www.praisewhistlers.org/

Feadoggie

yes, they are very different players…I’m currently playing with a Celtic Folk/Rock group…the Syns are loud enough and they mic nicely…don’t really need to "knock 'em dead " under these circumstances…just need the “sound” out in the house…I leave the Sindt’s at home out of fear of leaving them on a barstool, chip wagon or hotdog cart…t’would be a lot easier to relace the Syns in this kinda scenario…I would never afford, or pay the nescessary money, to replace the Sindt’s…I do play my Sindt high D at sessions…plus, the Syns are great workhorses and play about just as nicely as a Susato, Gen…etc… and are excellent for the fact that one could have 8 different bodies when needed…I use everyone save for the C#…but, you are absolutely correct…they are very, very, different whistles.

I appreciate your critique there big Davy, and while the current crop of whistle heads address that shortcoming better, the physics involved mean that the A body on a head of that bore size will always be a soft/gentle player at best. To address the problem I have been working on a ‘mid-range’ combo, high Bb or A down to Low F, same story, one head and multiple bodies. I hope to do a CP within the next few weeks, so will let you know.

I do quite a bit of Church gigs and have a roll with whistles in every key.

You can get two Major keys out of each whistle, of course, but sometimes to get the tune in a better range means using a different whistle.

Burkes are great for “legit” gigs and many’s the time I’ve seen a professional “reed man” (flute/sax/clarinet) show up at a gig with a roll of Burkes in a large number of keys.

But Burkes are pricey! So my roll still has a couple Susatos for keys I use very rarely, namely Ab and Gb.

There are gigs I’ve only had to use D and C whistles. Gigs I’ve only used E and Eb whistles. You never know!

One recent call was for Db… yep I have one.

For high whistles I have Generations, some off the shelf, some Freeman tweaked, some my self-created Frankenwhistles (Generations in A, Db, and B). Quite cheap, and they play great! Not too loud at all.

Here are the Generations. On the left is my FrankenGen A, and they go up chromatically A Bb B C Db D Eb (I don’t have a FrankenGen E, that’s in the works). That A is a great player, I have a Freeman Generation Bb head on it now which is superb.

More expensive, lower things

Odd keys means whistles in atypical keys for irish music. Further, some seem to be even more rare, like the B whistle.

It’s easy to make a Generation B out of a Generation Bb, or a Db out of a C, or an E out of an Eb.

I chop the top until the upper-hand holes are in tune to the new key.

Next chop the bottom until the bellnote and its octave are in tune to the new key.

Lastly carve out holes 6 and 5 (in that order) until those two notes are in tune. Holes 1 2 3 4 should be OK as they are.

:astonished: Actually the B whistle is rather common for Praise music, at least in my experience, A fair amount of guitar based music is played in the key of E which can be played on the B whistle. The usefulness of the B whistle actually surprised me at first. The B whistle just sits in a nice range sometimes where the high E is perhaps too chirpy and the low E seems to get lost a bit. So really what we might call odd keys can vary. The F# whistle is rare to me. I’ve made one and used it once, but yes, it was for a praise song.

Irish music can help narrow the keys you need a bit but even there we will see a lot of keys used over time. Singers sing their songs and we play accompaniment in whatever key they are comfortable with.

And Really the whistle can be used for any type of music if you have the keys available in your bag. Church music can be all over the map so you play what you have the whistles to support at first. Pick songs you like in keys you like and concentrate on those. You can always acquire more keys as the need presents itself. There’s really no need to have all the keys right from the start.

Start with some Gens. If you are the crafty type then look into making the in-between keys yourself out of additional Gens as Pancelticpiper suggests. The guidelines for making the E and B whistles are in the tweaks thread at the top of the forum. Otherwise take things as they come up and buy what you need then.

Feadoggie

You misunderstand. B is certainly an odd key when looking at this from the realm of irish music, as per my previous post. As is e. Etc. Meaning somewhat hard to find. It’s not exactly like attempting to find a d or c whistle.

I am aware of the keys needed for worship (and the reasons for said keys), as I stated in my OP. My concern at this point is finding and acquiring the necessary equipment. There have been a lot of good suggestions and advice so far.

Thanks!

My B whistle might be the one that gets most use for Irish traditional music…

For sessions? Not in this area. By far irish music is about casual group playing, and there aren’t many keys used.