I wouldn’t use a Bamboo flute even for forms training. Root end Shakuhachi aside, most bamboo flutes don’t have the combination of wall thickness and firehardening to handle the acceleration/deceleration forces that proper weapons movements require. Not to mention the fact that you will occasionally drop the thing. Better to have someone make you a mock up out of hard wood.
Of course any typical transverse Bamboo/Cane flute will disingrate on impact if you’re actually striking someone properly with it, but I understand that’s not what you’re planning.
The above is my professional opinion based on my 20 plus years as an instructor of the Filipino martial arts of Kali/Escrima/Arnis.
Loren
That’s sort of why I was leaning toward using the unplayable maple fife. Even if it flies apart, it’s no great loss.
I confess to being intrigued by the metal whistle-as-kubaton idea. Serpent’s chrome moly “Village Smithy” looks very workmanlike…
Check the other thread for a link I posted to a guy who makes flutes especially for weapons. They don’t look super-traditional, but they are fairly affordable and look like they might fit the bill.
Also, check out the Hamilton practice flutes. There is a conversation going about them in the Flute forum, now.
-Patrick
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick on 2002-11-18 12:28 ]
Kinda on an aside- but i have a funny instrument as weapon story..
Anyway i fly across the country regularly because my family lives in the west and i go to school in the northeast. Anyway so I was flying from Los Angeles to Boston, and this being post 9/11 I got searched -I’m dark (Mexican-American), I always get searched- just a part of life for me now. Well I was carrying on my flute (standard classical Boehm- I had as it turned out wisely left my tinwhistles at home.) Anyway so they searched me and searched me- and they finally got to my flute- they opened it up and like seached the entire case- and then the screener turns to guard and a National Guardsman (this was back when they were in all their airports) and says “I don’t know if we can let it on, its heavy enough to be used as a weapon” so the guardsman turns to me and says “why do you have it? Where are you going? Blah Bla” you know grilling me about my flute- and I’m standing there pleading with him that I cannot have it confiscated, that its an expensive instrument and i have it because i play in the Divinity School choir. Meanwhile the guy keeps picking it up and shaking it and smashing the keys and asks “why is it so heavy?” i just wanted to thump him- what a dumb question, its heavy because its made of brass and double plated in silver.
finally after they all consulted together they let me on with it. Apparently they didn’t want me on the plane with it because they figured it could be used as a weapon! When I got to the gate I was fully searched again and patted down again. Ah air travel. I hate it. I appreciate the security and all but man I ALWAYS get searched…
Great story, Angela. I’m sorry you always get searched–I haven’t yet. I’m 50-ish, WASP for generations, and have a face that will never hide a poker hand. There ought to be a way to work out search-her equity so who gets searched balances out.
Anyway, my tae kwon do instructor says he always gets searched. His family is Jewish and he’s very Middle-Eastern looking. (His developing a career in tae kwon do is a long story.) And since he always looks around for exits and to see who is doing what, he tends to attract unwanted attention.
I hope your flute wasn’t harmed, those keys can be fussy.
“Warning…I’ve got a whistle, and I’m not afraid to use it!”
Seriously, the insanity that’s taken over airport security since 9/11 is beyond belief. Yes, I know they have to be careful, but a flute, for heaven’s sake? All they would have had to have done is have you put it together and play it to verify that it was exactly what it appeared to be…a musical instrument. I can think of any number of common things I could use as a weapon, from my car keys to a soda can (thanks, Shihan!)…are they going to have us all flying naked and drinking from paper cups before all this madness is over and done with?
Even before 9/11, airport personel could get overly zealous. I used to have a wooden kubaton key chain, and it got confiscated every time I went through airport security. The thing didn’t even have a point on it…it was just a six-inch-long piece of wood. I never did figure out just what they expected I might do with it that would be a threat to airline security, but what’re ya gonna do?
Hmm, let me get this strait; You attempted to carry a weapon, designed to be easy to conceal, and with no other useful purpose than to injure people (don’t even try the keychain argument - you could have chosen a thousand different items for that purpose) - and you wonder why it got confiscated everytime you tried to get on an airplane with it? Hello, McFly…
Try that stunt at an EL AL terminal and you’ll get to enjoy a free interrogation, strip, and full body cavity search, regardless of your nationality or color or religion.
But then again, they do seem to be able to keep terrorists from hi-jacking and blowing up their planes, don’t they? Perhaps we should have learned something from them like, oh…say 20 years ago?
But no, we value our right not to be inconvienced too much, don’t we?
Loren
[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2002-11-18 19:55 ]
When our instructor talked about kubatons, he cautioned us (even years ago) that they might not make it past security at the airport, so I’ve never tried. Heck, except for some of the more sturdy whistles, I don’t own one either.
Weapons, defensive or otherwise, are where you find them–Mr. Hillson showed us a neat trick with a plastic shopping bag.
And a rolled-up magazine (as the self-defense students demonstrate to themselves) can be used to break a pine board–the equivalent of a clavicle, I think.
On 2002-11-18 21:39, Cyfiawnder wrote:
You think that’s cool? My old Ninjitsu instructor Cut a watermellon in half with a piece of construction paper now that, was cool >
On 2002-11-18 21:28, mvhplank wrote:
And a rolled-up magazine (as the self-defense students demonstrate to themselves) can be used to break a pine board–the equivalent of a clavicle, I think.
Not even close: Unless someone has Osteoperosis, the clavical is far stronger than your typical pine “Breaking” board. Heck, you can practically look at one of those things wrong and it’s snap.
On 2002-11-18 21:28, mvhplank wrote:
And a rolled-up magazine (as the self-defense students demonstrate to themselves) can be used to break a pine board–the equivalent of a clavicle, I think.
Not even close: Unless someone has Osteoperosis, the clavical is far stronger than your typical pine “Breaking” board. Heck, you can practically look at one of those things wrong and it’s snap.
Loren
Which board is typical? Some ARE “potato chips” but the wet ones sure aren’t. Which clavicles are typical?
Anyway, I was just paraphrasing the Arnis master who gave a clinic last year. I haven’t done the practical experimentation.
(quote)I wouldn’t imagine that bamboo would be very durable, though some bamboo is harder than others when dried.
[/quote]
I practice my bokata with a triple node bamboo hanbo which is very hard, sturdy, well balanced, and lighter in weight than any of my wood sticks. It makes a perfect walkingstick for someone my height. Ralph Sweet used to make, and maybe still does, walking-stick flutes and fifes, and if I played transverse blown flutes, I’d definitely get one. But I don’t, so I won’t.
Regarding the use of whistles as kubotan, they don’t need to be heavy or particularly substantial. Just about any D whistle will do nicely for a throat strike, finger or wrist lock - even a Clarke. Either end would be wicked for shenkewaza. Sensei teaches to grip our car keys in attack position when approaching the car at night - there is no reason why a whistle couldn’t serve the same purpose on your way from the pub to the parking lot.
I remember seeing a website that mentioned the Shawm as a formidible weapon in the early music days.
My instrument shop is located at the old Peters Cartridge Factory where they made ammunition shells for WWII. Now, I make some whistles out of cartridge brass - the same grade of brass that cartridge shells were made of. Full circle.
It’s sort of like hammering swords into plowshares.
On 2002-11-20 22:35, Daniel_Bingamon wrote:
I remember seeing a website that mentioned the Shawm as a formidible weapon in the early music days.
My instrument shop is located at the old Peters Cartridge Factory where they made ammunition shells for WWII. Now, I make some whistles out of cartridge brass - the same grade of brass that cartridge shells were made of. Full circle.
It’s sort of like hammering swords into plowshares.
… and now, the “whistle martial-artists” are making it truly full circle.
[…]
Now, I make some whistles out of cartridge brass - the same grade of brass that cartridge shells were made of. Full circle.
It’s sort of like hammering swords into plowshares.
… and now, the “whistle martial-artists” are making it truly full circle.
Take your place on the Great Mandala…
Cheers, (bittersweet)
Serpent
sigh. Even if you add “artists,” it’s still “martial” first, isn’t it? Even if you hope you never need to use your skills, there’s still that expectation that you might.
Can we compare forms practice (what my instructor maintains is the “art” in martial arts) to target shooting?
